BE58 Configuration (ILS)

dasleben said:
I like your style, Commodore.



Not a problem! We can usually give you faster for longer than that anyway. Trying to get some of your comrades to figure that out though. I'm sick of getting spun around for the jets, then getting told to slow way down once the controller figures out that the 737 has slowed to 140 and we're still doing 180. ;) Not to mention, once we start downhill at 170+ it takes a while to slow back down to 140-150 when we're still descending. We have to stage cool the turbos in the descent.
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Don't blame you, I hate being the feeder when someone is not taking you guys and I have give you the ring-around-the-rosie all at the same time I am slowing the jets to 170 anyways???????? Only disadvantage in sticking you guys in there is if we are 1 runway we need to have 4(or more) miles in front of you due to wake turbulence. This isn't an issue if we are two runways. In fact I use you guys to my advantage when we are two runways. Bear with me, I need 5 miles behind a heavy with a large, now with you on the parallels I just need standard separation (2 miles**). So by sticking you in behind a Heavy on the parallel, I don't lose anything, a B737 can still be 5 behind the Heavy. Now where people run into problems is they want to run the 28 circle to the right side when tower can't provide visual sep. That is stupid IMO because now you have account for the variable of when the circling will commence and separate for it. Sorry long winded but hopefully you get my drift.
 
averyrm said:
Both of them are FAF at 150 ;)
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Hmm i swore the normal you put the approach flaps down 3 miles from FAF and slow to about 120. It's been awhile since I've been there and all the oil/fuel fumes over the years has done wonders to my memory so I could be wrong. haha.
 
Why touch the mixture or props prior to DA?? You probably wont need to go around anyway... :crazy: I flew a 58P single pilot. I wanted everything ready to go WAY before DA in the event of a GA. I want before landing checks DONE at the FAF or GS intercept. Only thing I would leave out of this equation is full flaps. 120 kts @ LOC alive, Gear down at one dot to go on the GS, Prop sync off, full mixture and full props.

I really don't understand why everyone is so afraid of getting the props and mixtures up early???? I can understand the props because of noise for pax...but only on a visual. I'm flying an ILS to minimums, I don't care if you "cant stand that annoying noise"
 
CFI4life said:
I really don't understand why everyone is so afraid of getting the props and mixtures up early????
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Who's afraid? It's just something else to do. I go mixtures-props-throttles on a go around anyway, so they'll go forward when they need to.

-mini
 
you guys mention setting full flaps "when commited to land"

on an ILS is that at glideslope intercept? i cannot imagine changing the flap setting once on the glideslope
 
SIUav8er said:
you guys mention setting full flaps "when commited to land"

on an ILS is that at glideslope intercept? i cannot imagine changing the flap setting once on the glideslope
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Fly for airnet and it's a nightly occurrence. Becomes very routine.
 
yeah, i guess the Vle for the Pa-31 is like 120, which is lower than what Piper says. AMF has more conservative speeds to save wear and tear on the gear doors. i think Vfe is like 130... I'll find out next week!
 
SIUav8er said:
yeah, i guess the Vle for the Pa-31 is like 120, which is lower than what Piper says. AMF has more conservative speeds to save wear and tear on the gear doors. i think Vfe is like 130... I'll find out next week!
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162 and 132 come to mind.

162 for up to 25 degrees of flaps
Gear at 150
Flaps land at 132

Surely an airnet ho driver will correct me here if I'm wrong. It has certainly been a while.

(for the -350...the "straight navajo" has lower speeds, if I'm not mistaken.)

SIUav8er said:
you guys mention setting full flaps "when commited to land"

on an ILS is that at glideslope intercept? i cannot imagine changing the flap setting once on the glideslope
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We do it all the time in our jjjjjjjjjjet.

Flaps go to land at either 1000' or 500' depending on wx and what type of approach. While coming down the glideslope...and slowing...and running a checklist. Really not a big deal.

-mini
 
Yep, we were "Flaps Landing, Props Forward" in the 1900 when landing was assured. Worked great. It broke up the flight, and ended up with both crewmembers checking the gear were down with 3 green about 3 times, which is good too.

I like checklists that are broken up into multiple parts before takeoff and landing. I tend to think that checklists that are just a long list of things to do without any perceptible logic behind them tend to be skipped in favor of flows. Seems logical to me to script your flight through "Flow, check, flow, check, flow, check" sort of way that breaks up the flight into more discrete units. At point A we do X, at point B we do Y, and at point C we do Z seems to work better than point A do XYZ, point B do nothing, point C do nothing. But maybe I'm wrong about this in regards to CRM. Someone will surely give me a better answer.
 
I like checklists that are logical in their order of events and don't require one to be "heads down" for a ridiculous amount of time whether 1 or 2 pilots. I like having most of my "before takeoff" items done before we leave the blocks. Ours is called a "before taxi" checklist.

Our "before takeoff" checklist, I'm not a fan of. Same with our approach and before landing checklists. We're currently re-writing them to be more logical.

It is my opinion that "mixtures - full rich; props - max RPM" aren't checklist items. They're "how to fly the airplane 101" items. Like the Cessna "takeoff" checklist. It's stupid...no one actually does that checklist. They just do...I've yet to see someone pull out a "takeoff" checklist while rolling onto the runway.

-mini
 
minitour said:
Who's afraid? It's just something else to do. I go mixtures-props-throttles on a go around anyway, so they'll go forward when they need to.

-mini
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How many missed approaches from an ILS have you done? :confused: Can you honestly tell me that when that time comes you want to be 200 ft AGL at 120 kts messing around with your prop and mixture controls before advancing power? Its get up and go time when you don't see paint, pavement or lights at the DA. Not "mixture, props, throttles" time. KISS
 
CFI4life said:
How many missed approaches from an ILS have you done? :confused: Can you honestly tell me that when that time comes you want to be 200 ft AGL at 120 kts messing around with your prop and mixture controls before advancing power? Its get up and go time when you don't see paint, pavement or lights at the DA. Not "mixture, props, throttles" time. KISS
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I disagree. There's more than enough time to do all three. As long as you're centered on the LOC/GS, sinking slightly below DA while performing the missed is perfectly acceptable. We're only talking about 2-3 extra seconds anyway.

SIUav8er said:
you guys mention setting full flaps "when commited to land"

on an ILS is that at glideslope intercept? i cannot imagine changing the flap setting once on the glideslope
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We do that all the time. We even toss in landing flaps (45 degrees) at DA when we get the lights or runway in sight. That's pretty low. Honestly, it's the only way to keep up with the jets going into places like BOS and BWI on really low days. It's perfectly safe if done properly.
 
CFI4life said:
How many missed approaches from an ILS have you done? :confused: Can you honestly tell me that when that time comes you want to be 200 ft AGL at 120 kts messing around with your prop and mixture controls before advancing power? Its get up and go time when you don't see paint, pavement or lights at the DA. Not "mixture, props, throttles" time. KISS
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I agree with this! messing with the mixtures and props at 200' isnt something I want to be doing.

I am enjoying the discussion about technique!
 
minitour said:
I like checklists that are logical in their order of events and don't require one to be "heads down" for a ridiculous amount of time whether 1 or 2 pilots. I like having most of my "before takeoff" items done before we leave the blocks. Ours is called a "before taxi" checklist.

Our "before takeoff" checklist, I'm not a fan of. Same with our approach and before landing checklists. We're currently re-writing them to be more logical.

It is my opinion that "mixtures - full rich; props - max RPM" aren't checklist items. They're "how to fly the airplane 101" items. Like the Cessna "takeoff" checklist. It's stupid...no one actually does that checklist. They just do...I've yet to see someone pull out a "takeoff" checklist while rolling onto the runway.

-mini
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So you must not need a checklist then huh Bob Ross? You can honestly tell me you've never forgotten your mixture and prop controls prior to touchdown? :yourock:
 
dasleben said:
i disagree. There's more than enough time to do all three. As long as you're centered on the loc/gs, sinking slightly below da while performing the missed is perfectly acceptable. We're only talking about 2-3 extra seconds anyway.
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but have you actually had to do it??????
 
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