B-Jet crash in San Diego

Boris Badenov said:
Citation II on a transcon? Under Part 91? Nothing could possibly go wrong, must have been a glitch, a technical malfunction of some sort.
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Stopped for fuel. Long night. This was also a Williams conversion with the new engines.

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
The guy sounds pretty nonchalant, with no exit plan for alternate? He’s talking to the approach controller. That’s pretty late for alternate planning. Why not discuss this at TOD minus ~50-100 miles? If the ASOS at Montgomery is broken, then it gives plenty of time to get weather from surrounding airports like Gillespie, Brown, SAN, etc.
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No wifi, and single pilot. I don’t know if he actually filed an alternate but It’s not unusual to ask approach about options much closer in this line of flying. With no WiFi and no “dispatch” he’s simply looking for additional options which shows some good decision making. However, an all night red eye from TEB after probably working all day does not.

Found some details. The owner operator was fairly well qualified on paper and held a current CFI-II/MEI

Additionally the right seat passenger posted some photos in the cockpit before departure. As a pilot of some of these citations every single avionic installation is different so could have missed the LPV button or switch (due to old HSI) or just got low and had no idea.

Owner and possibly the pilot.

 

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T/O w/FSII said:
Most of these installations require a “hack” to get the LPV to work. Sad stuff.
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IMHO, we are woefully under-trained on whatever the flavor of the week all-singing, all-dancing approach may be. Or maybe not under-trained, they're all we do in the sim. But when the day-to-day reality is that you do an ILS...no matter how much training you get, an LPV or IAN or whatever other letter-salad approach is the first hole in the cheese.
 
Boris Badenov said:
IMHO, we are woefully under-trained on whatever the flavor of the week all-singing, all-dancing approach may be. Or maybe not under-trained, they're all we do in the sim. But when the day-to-day reality is that you do an ILS...no matter how much training you get, an LPV or IAN or whatever other letter-salad approach is the first hole in the cheese.
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In all modern business jets it’s actually and always a “LPV first” mindset. The way it’s integrated keeps the jet happy and pink needles are best.

The problem is these old retro fits. Every single shop does it differently and STC’s change and new ones drop. Also, hardly any 500 sims anymore and 0 configured specifically to your airplane.

You can thank the ASBD mandate for changing all of the avionics in these planes into weird hacks to get them to work. I’ve got a couple hundred hours in these citations before and after that mandate and the only thing that’s in common is that they’re all different.
 
Caught a short snippet about this in the van this am, but not enough to know what had happened. Just heard “jet fuel fire”, “jet airplane”, and “potential ground casualties”. Not that this is any better, but I was worried we’d had another big 121 accident, like an 80’s/90’s style big one. No less tragic of course
 
///AMG said:
Caught a short snippet about this in the van this am, but not enough to know what had happened. Just heard “jet fuel fire”, “jet airplane”, and “potential ground casualties”. Not that this is any better, but I was worried we’d had another big 121 accident, like an 80’s/90’s style big one. No less tragic of course
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The fuel leaked all the way down the street in the gutter and caught on fire igniting cars parked on the street all the way down the block.

The actual impact was only to one corner of a single house on the corner.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
The guy sounds pretty nonchalant, with no exit plan for alternate? He’s talking to the approach controller. That’s pretty late for alternate planning. Why not discuss this at TOD minus ~50-100 miles? If the ASOS at Montgomery is broken, then it gives plenty of time to get weather from surrounding airports like Gillespie, Brown, SAN, etc.
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Oh corpies
 
There I was, April of 2020, having just been called back to work after a brief COVID furlough. I got the call to report to the airport in two hours, as we had a trip flying the Beechjunk from KCRQ to KOPF with a kidney aboard.

We get the cooler with the kidney and blast off. Aside from me figuring out how to reset a kidney cooler mid-flight, we land in DFW and then OPA without incident. We were supposed to go to a hotel and return in the morning, but the captain (and me, for that matter) didn't really want to hang out in COVID-infested FL at some flea-bag hotel. We were both feeling pretty alert, and we were Part 91 at that point, so we decided to fuel up and blast off for home. It was about 11pm EST. We landed in DFW for gas, which of course took way too long in the middle of the night, but after a cup of coffee and a brief discussion we decided to press on.

I kept checking the weather at KCRQ, which was (of course, at that time of year), very low fog. We also had a little bit more wind on the nose than forecast, so we would be a little light on fuel when we got there. A missed approach and a diversion to PSP would be possible, but only just barely. We'd been flying for 9 hours at that point, and "at work" for perhaps 13. We would be shooting that ILS24 back into CRQ right about 0500. The coffee definitely wasn't working as well anymore.

Somewhere over the Sangre de Cristo mountains of New Mexico, we looked over at each other and asked "what in the hell are we doing here?" The decision was taken to divert to PHX to grab some gas and a few hours of shuteye and let the fog burn off.

We completed the trip the next day at about 11am after some sleep and breakfast, and I am still here to talk about it.

Fix
 
+1 on LPV installs on retrofit. Every brand, every install is different.

On my old bird, it was as straightforward as I’ve seen, but you still needed to know the buttonology of the GPS and the AP, and the weird workaround for straight in approaches (there was a VTF mode, but it dumped all the waypoints but the FAF and inside).
 
T/O w/FSII said:
Yea so, a dude flying his plane around with his friends isn’t a Corpie. But keep trying. This thread, once again, isn’t for you.
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Came here to say this. 91 can be everything from an owner-pilot in a dispose-a-jet to a professional crew with better training and equipment and work rules than the (I don’t have a CCism for airlines).
 
Boris Badenov said:
IMHO, we are woefully under-trained on whatever the flavor of the week all-singing, all-dancing approach may be. Or maybe not under-trained, they're all we do in the sim. But when the day-to-day reality is that you do an ILS...no matter how much training you get, an LPV or IAN or whatever other letter-salad approach is the first hole in the cheese.
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To add, too:

One of the more marginally-ridiculous things that I can think of is that my King Air 350 type rating authorizes me to fly a bunch of different avionics installations, from a very conventional EFIS setup to a Garmin thing with bits that look like they're out of a BMW and then the intermediate generation with the, er, checks notes Honeywell Pro Line 21...and whatever new step comes out after that, and whatever intermediate iterations I've forgotten, too.

Notwithstanding my lack of currency in type, even if I re-established it, I'm not going to go blast off and fly any of those different installations without some sort of training or supervision or something, because adult responsibilities. But I'm allowed to, on paper. I would be very loathe to do serious IFR flying without simulator training, FAA minimum adequacy be damned.

My real point is that your best bet at getting things 'right' when the chips are down involves training with the avionics and approaches you're likely to have to fly when the chips are down—and I would bet a lot of money that a lot of recurrent training providers don't have whatever suicide switch skull-duggery is necessary to line up whatever the alphabet soup of the week is too since it's all aftermarket.
 
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