Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discrimination

Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat

Emily's issues with her eyebrow piercing is the exact reason why my lebret piercing (the ball looking thing right under my lip for those that were at Vegas) came out after about 4 months. Sure it kind of got in the way during marching band; but I didn't want ANY kind of a scar because I realize how much this can affect my future employability. In fact, if I were not so paranoid about it I'd be going in next week to get my ears gauged out so that I could get some small plugs put in them, but I'm too worried about having a hole left in a few years that a 16 gauge (REAL small) earing could even fit through. I've got some 14 gauge earings in right now and I'm not too worried about it; but they'll be gone long before I interview for my first CFI job.

I hate the stereotypes that come with having a few piercings, which is that you're unprofessional, not dedicated, uneducated and whatever else you can think of. I've found the exact opposite to be true, but you've gotta still conform to the stereotypes of society if you want to keep moving up as far as I can tell. You can bet I'd be getting a GLP tattoo or something here if I could, but I'm going to be competing for a job against the "clean cut all American boy" and there's no way in hell that I'm going to let that Abercrombie wearing poser take my job just because he's some clean cut look alike.

Maybe I'll just go get my septum pierced, no one can see that...

Oh, and FIGHT THE MAN!
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Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat

John I love you man. I just worry that when you and Em get married and move to the suburbs and are making six figures and in a higher tax bracket your gonna become....gasp a republicans.
Much the same that our currently leaders were prolly hippies in the 60-70's and are now close minded conservative (expletives.)

Don't sell out....
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-Matthew
 
Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat

Absolutly no %$*($*# way, there is NO way I'm becoming a yuppie. I'm way too into the cause to have that happen. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm all into fiscal responsiblity but I don't view that as a liberal/conservative thing (even though conservatives always taut it), I view it as a growing up and realize you gotta pay the bills thing. Socially I'm never going to change, ever.

You gotta Rage Against the Machine brother
 
Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat

[ QUOTE ]
You gotta Rage Against the Machine brother

[/ QUOTE ]

I've always wondered about those guys. Ivy educated white guys.

Rage Against the Machine?

Dude, you guys ARE the freaking machine!
 
Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat

[ QUOTE ]
No matter what you do, there are going to be people that try to rain on your parade or stand in your way. But here's the big secret, they're only raining on your parade or standing in your way if you let them

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey thanks for the inspiration Doug!
 
Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, if someone gives you problems, plan to be faster, better, smarter and more professional then they are. Then smile graciously as you step on their neck!
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Success drives all of the naysayers friggen CRAZY.

[/ QUOTE ]




amen
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Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat

[ QUOTE ]
John I love you man. I just worry that when you and Em get married and move to the suburbs and are making six figures and in a higher tax bracket your gonna become....gasp a republicans.
Much the same that our currently leaders were prolly hippies in the 60-70's and are now close minded conservative (expletives.)

Don't sell out....
grin.gif


cwm27.gif


-Matthew

[/ QUOTE ]

Matthew, we all know that inside you and John H are young Republicans waiting to get out!
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Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat

[ QUOTE ]

Matthew, we all know that inside you and John H are young Republicans waiting to get out!
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[/ QUOTE ]

LOL...then you haven't been watching and reading JC or Arguepolitics carefully for the past couple of years. I swear to one and all who read this Matthew will never,never be a member of the Log Cabin Republicans.

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-Matthew
 
Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat

[ QUOTE ]
read about 2 pages of that flight info thread before I was so pissed that I wanted to punch someone in the face. Comments and attitudes like those are the reasons behind why women find it difficult to excel in a work enviornment. In order to get anywhere in a professional field a woman has to act assertive and aggressive

[/ QUOTE ]

If anyone can direct me to that specific post please reply or pm me.

Thanks
 
Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat

I've been watching this thread closely and taking it all in.

I was an airline pilot from 1-9-95 until 9-11-01. During that entire time I was known as a Born Again Christian. Yes, I was ridiculed, chastised, pulled aside and told to calm down, etc.

But I cannot recall a situation where it directly influenced a chance for me to get an interview or promotion. I've tried to remember any other situation where there was any religious discrimination against anybody and nothing comes up in my foggy memory.

Racial. Well... I flew with people of every color. (ok, for you Ian - "Colour") There were discussions on background, ethnicity, comments that shouldn't have been made, etc. The only thing I really saw was reverse-discrimination in certain airline's quota systems for interviewing and hiring. United, Northwest, AA and USAirways come to mind. I never heard of any quotas at Delta (relax Doug!) although they are known to favor ex-Navy pilots.

But here's my take on reverse racial discrimination - It's not exactly right but I do not blame a young black, indian, hispanic or otherwise minority pilot for taking advantage of it. There are so many other disadvantages that are thrown upon them by their birthright why not take advantage of one of the few places it works in your favor? I had one black student who didn't want to join BAPA because he felt it was morally wrong and "cheating to get ahead."

I convinced him to join. The clincher was, "Ahmiel - everyone's going to think you used your race to get the job anyway so why not do it? You've been beaten down, left out, had to endure dirty looks and the like for being black your whole life, and here's a chance for it to work in your favor. Do it!"

He just got furloughed by AA, but I expect him to be back right after the new contract is signed. I digress ....

Sexual. Well I sure saw one heck of a lot of activity that could be called sexual harassment! But discrimination in hiring and promoting practices? Again, only the reverse discrimination that "Steve Wolf" airlines practiced, to name United and USAirways specifically. It was an admitted fact that both airlines had separate resume stacks for blacks, oriental, female, military and everyone else. In fact USAirways even had a "secret" fax number for female resumes. I can name four girls that were hired at USAirways without paying the $75 application fee. One of them was even hired without an interview. Her friend was in new hire class and somebody no-showed. The HR person asked the women in the class if they knew another qualified woman to take the slot. This girl was in TWA ground school at the time and left them that night to be in USAirways ground school the next morning, where she was filling out application and other HR forms while class was going on.

That really annoyed me. I considered that blatant reverse discrimination. I have a theory about Steve Wolf, which I will talk about someday when I have more info - but I'll just say that watch for his name on a political ballot somewhere.

Some of you mentioned tatoos and piercings. I don't see what these have to do with racial, sexual or religious discrimination. I don't know of a recognized world religion that requires you to mutilate your body off hand (unless you count circumcision LOL!) However for professional reasons I can see where the airline's stance came from, that they must be covered up (or removed) while working unless in prescribed places (pierced earlobes for example.)
 
Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, if someone gives you problems, plan to be faster, better, smarter and more professional then they are. Then smile graciously as you step on their neck!
Success drives all of the naysayers friggen CRAZY.

[/ QUOTE ]

True. Besides, by showing their ass like that they've already shown they aren't as professional as you.

My favorite thing, back in the 80s mostly, was the captains who told me they were telling their sons to give up on aviation because only women and minorities were getting hired! I always responded with something like: "You are kidding, right?"

As to facial jewellery and tattoos and the such. I get the whole personal expression thing, but on the other hand, part of being a professional in most fields is to not do things that overtly show you are trying to be "different". It's kind of like my shaving habits when I'm not working, or wearing the hat, etc. etc. It just goes with the territory and serves to show your priorities. Part of being a professional is to project an image that fits with your profession. And that image is set by those in the profession, especially your employer and clients. I've known some people in the airline biz that loved to display their individuality, but it almost always detracted from their professionalism.
 
In my opinion, it exists everywhere. However, I learned how to deal with it. Sometimes, I even use as my advantage. If you let whatever getting into your head, they achieve their goal of upsetting you.

Ever heard about different racial prom at high school? It still happens somewhere down south. I am not going to name.
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TonyW, between you and me, we probably hear this a lot in recent days - "Are you William Hung(The dude on American Idol)?"
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Doug, I have 3 daughters and everyone of them is portable. Want to go come over with Krisitie? You get "buy one get one free" deal. You can help to send them to ERAU in the future.
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The real queston I have is how my children fill the applications of all kinds under the race? I am Taiwanese. My wife is American(German, Dutch mixed).

adreamer
 
I am a young, white, yuppie-esque airline pilot. I drive a silver SUV. I wear khakis and polo shirts on my days off. I like country music. I drink foo-foo coffee often.

I have never experienced any sort of racial, sexual, or age discrimination whatsoever.
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Seriously though, I have heard many comments regarding someone's gender or sexual orientation at this job. Actually I've heard it a lot. I just shrug it off usually, recognizing that the one making the comment is completely ignorant. If they cannot accept someone's God given gifts, then why should I be expected to tolerate them?
 
Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat

Actually there is at least one religion that requires "body mutilation" as you put it; it's my understanding that when Indian (so we'll say Hindi) girls get married they get their nose pierced. I was having this conversation with a friend the other day actually about how she has to get it done fairly soon.

Furthermore, what I'm talking about has to do primarily with socital stereotypes. I have my ears pierced right now, but it's only a guess that when I get to that whole "professional" part of being a pilot, those will be unacceptable. Women on the other hand, can wear earings no problem. The impression I've gotten is that for dudes to wear earings and be "professional" elludes to something that most men seem to be uncomftorable with.

And here's a double edged sword; what's the difference between having your ears pierced and having your lebret pierced. To your body; nothing. It's another hole just the same as having some in your ears. But there is this concept that people have about "facial piercings," which by the way is a real misnomer; when you have your ears pierced it's a facial piercing as far as I'm concerned.

Anyways, topic of contention for me. I'm sick of people judging me by shallow things such as how I look instead of the content of my character.
 
Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat

I'm not really sure if I'm even that much of a believer in most cases of alleged reverse discrimination.

Say a company primarily hires just lizards. How many top-qualified geckos were overlooked because a lesser-qualified lizard was hired instead? If a gecko gets the job, the lizard can't presume he was discriminated against, perhaps he actually got beat fair and square by a better qualified gecko?

But then, the lizard's ego may get bruised.
 
Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat

[ QUOTE ]
Say a company primarily hires just lizards. How many top-qualified geckos were overlooked because a lesser-qualified lizard was hired instead? If a gecko gets the job, the lizard can't presume he was discriminated against, perhaps he actually got beat fair and square by a better qualified gecko?

But then, the lizard's ego may get bruised.

[/ QUOTE ]Oh, come on Doug!! We all know how he got his job!

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Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat

[ QUOTE ]
TonyW, between you and me, we probably hear this a lot in recent days - "Are you William Hung(The dude on American Idol)?"
tongue.gif


The real queston I have is how my children fill the applications of all kinds under the race? I am Taiwanese. My wife is American(German, Dutch mixed).

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see.....Bruce Lee, his son, Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Yao Ming, William Hung, and it goes on and on and on. Every time there's an Asian guy that does something to get himself into the spotlight, I get told I look like him. I dunna, adreamer, I guess it is true -- white people really do think we all look alike.

Know what your kids should put down on the application? American. Because that's what the future of America is going to be. We've got so many interracial marriages going on that someday, we won't have black, white, yellow, brown and red, it's all gonna be a beige.

When that day comes, maybe we'll get over our racial bigotries. Of course, they'll be replaced with something else, but hey, at least that will be gone, right?

What part of Taiwan are you from, adreamer? My father is from Beikang (no smart ass comments about Beijing from the peanut gallery, please). My mother is from Taichung.
 
Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat

[ QUOTE ]
Actually there is at least one religion that requires "body mutilation" as you put it; it's my understanding that when Indian (so we'll say Hindi) girls get married they get their nose pierced. I was having this conversation with a friend the other day actually about how she has to get it done fairly soon.

Furthermore, what I'm talking about has to do primarily with socital stereotypes. I have my ears pierced right now, but it's only a guess that when I get to that whole "professional" part of being a pilot, those will be unacceptable. Women on the other hand, can wear earings no problem. The impression I've gotten is that for dudes to wear earings and be "professional" elludes to something that most men seem to be uncomftorable with.

And here's a double edged sword; what's the difference between having your ears pierced and having your lebret pierced. To your body; nothing. It's another hole just the same as having some in your ears. But there is this concept that people have about "facial piercings," which by the way is a real misnomer; when you have your ears pierced it's a facial piercing as far as I'm concerned.

Anyways, topic of contention for me. I'm sick of people judging me by shallow things such as how I look instead of the content of my character.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must say I agree. One of the less know rights and markers of a wiccan priest/ess is that of dreadlocks (weren't known as dreadlocks back in the day but ya know what I mean). As children we were told stories of how St Patrick drove 'the snakes' out of Ireland. Ireland never really had and indigenous snakes as far as I know. What this does refer to is the practice of the men tattooing their forearms with the symbol of a snake. Not only that both the men and women priests/esses wore their hair in cords as a sign of their status and role within their clan. When Julius Cesar first came to the Celtic Isles he is recorded as saying that the Celts had hair like snakes or like that of my horses. In our modern society it is not practical for me to wear ritual clothing on a day to day basis. I also realize that I must maintain a neat and well kempt appearance. I took on my dreadlocks when I decided to take up vocation within my faith. They require work to keep clean and neat. I don't mind (although lately my poor hands do) the work it takes or the questions I get about them. I welcome it because it allows to create a dialogue with people that may not know why.
 
Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat

[ QUOTE ]
Actually there is at least one religion that requires "body mutilation" as you put it; it's my understanding that when Indian (so we'll say Hindi) girls get married they get their nose pierced. I was having this conversation with a friend the other day actually about how she has to get it done fairly soon.

Furthermore, what I'm talking about has to do primarily with socital stereotypes. I have my ears pierced right now, but it's only a guess that when I get to that whole "professional" part of being a pilot, those will be unacceptable. Women on the other hand, can wear earings no problem. The impression I've gotten is that for dudes to wear earings and be "professional" elludes to something that most men seem to be uncomftorable with.

And here's a double edged sword; what's the difference between having your ears pierced and having your lebret pierced. To your body; nothing. It's another hole just the same as having some in your ears. But there is this concept that people have about "facial piercings," which by the way is a real misnomer; when you have your ears pierced it's a facial piercing as far as I'm concerned.

Anyways, topic of contention for me. I'm sick of people judging me by shallow things such as how I look instead of the content of my character.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the record John, I do not like ANY piercings period. I don't even like jewelry. I am shocked at how young girls are allowed to get their ears pierced now. I saw a baby girl in the church nursery (yes there) probably about 1 1/2 years old with pierced ears. All I can do is shake my head.

I don't even like wearing a watch!

OK back on topic.

[/hijack]
 
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