Aviation Universities

[HVYMETALDRVR]

I think all of the colleges I listed are "standard universities" that happen to offer aviation courses. And I'm not sure if it's possible, but I wasn't necessarily looking to get a degree in Aviation, I was planning on going to the university for a business degree (definitely not law or medicine) and take flight lessons at the same time.

ERAU, as you already know is an extremely expensive private school focusing on aviation. UND and the others are more diversified, but are still mostly known for aviation. Yeah stay away from medicine, just as expensive as aviation.

If I just go to a local FBO and a regular university, I would still have the "requirements" (used loosely) to be successful as a prof. pilot?

Believe or not the first thing any potential employer will look at is prior flight time and work experience so yes.

 

[Flightnerd]

I went to LeTourneau, loved it. Got a degree in Professional Flight and I think it's served me well starting my career.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Yeah, listen to the guy with an e6b quote in his sigfile.

 

[Flightnerd]

It's an old flight team joke. What of it?

 

[jtrain609]

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

 

[Screaming_Eagle_ATC]

Kent State, Eastern Michigan, Western Michigan , Beaver, I cannot think of the institution in Carbondale,IL but its there, cincy? OSU, University of Illinois had one. University of minesota at crookston. Indiana State...etc

 

[Ralgha]

The two most important rules in flight training:

1) Do not go to an aviation university.
2) Do not get an aviation degree.

An aviation degree is right up there with underwater basket weaving in uselessness. You will not be a better pilot, most of what you learn is useless trivia.

Get a degree in ANYTHING else. Partially because you might be able to use it later, but mostly because it'll just help you be a better person, and yes, pilot. It will help you develop study habits that will aid you in all walks of life. Aviation degrees do not, people who get those degrees are so enamored with the subject, and the subject is so easy, that good study habits are usually not developed.

When I was in my first 121 ground school, the people with aviation degrees thought it was the hardest thing they'd ever done (like drinking from a fire hose). I thought it was a snoozer, compared to my college classes it was a walk in the park. Other people with engineering and other degrees felt similar.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus that ate your iPhone.

 

[Pilotman83]

Check out Eastern Kentucky University. They have a pretty good pro flight program. Beautiful campus and a good university.

 

[Maurus]

Most backup degrees aren't really worth more than an aviation degree unless you actually plan on doing something with them along side your aviation career. No experience and disuse will make you a terrible candidate for a job based on that degree in a few years. A fresh college grad would be a better candidate at that point. This is especially true if it is a degree in a continually changing industry. Medicine, computers, ect.

Losing a medical is getting harder and harder to do and you likely wont start having an major issues till you are 30+ years of age. I really don't see the point of having a "backup" degree as every degree will become equal to the 4 year check box thing of that period of time of disuse.

Get a degree in ANYTHING else. Partially because you might be able to use it later, but mostly because it'll just help you be a better person, and yes, pilot. It will help you develop study habits that will aid you in all walks of life. Aviation degrees do not, people who get those degrees are so enamored with the subject, and the subject is so easy, that good study habits are usually not developed.

When I was in my first 121 ground school, the people with aviation degrees thought it was the hardest thing they'd ever done (like drinking from a fire hose). I thought it was a snoozer, compared to my college classes it was a walk in the park. Other people with engineering and other degrees felt similar.

Interesting assumption as you likely haven't taken any advanced aviation degree classes. Chances are you just found some people that thought everything would come easy because of the degree they had. When they realize it wasn't what they expected it becomes a fire hose sense of feeling because they started too late. Believing a degree you don't have and study habits have some sort of link is falling into that whole causation/correlation thing.

 

[SA227driver]

I attended a two year college out here in California, Mt. San Antonio College, that also had a flight program. Got my AS in aviation, then got my management degree from Southern Illinois University, Carbondale through an off campus program offered at my community college. I flight instructed through college and after. I flew the Chieftain, Be99, and Metroliner at Ameriflight for 6.5 years and now I'm over at Allegiant training on the MD80.

The best thing about college was that I came out of it debt free and finished in 3.5 years. I paid for community college through my job pumping gas at a local airport, met a lot of pilots too and networked, and paid for my BS in Management with money from flight instructing and a little help from my parents.

 

[Ralgha]

Most backup degrees aren't really worth more than an aviation degree unless you actually plan on doing something with them along side your aviation career. No experience and disuse will make you a terrible candidate for a job based on that degree in a few years. A fresh college grad would be a better candidate at that point. This is especially true if it is a degree in a continually changing industry. Medicine, computers, ect.

Losing a medical is getting harder and harder to do and you likely wont till you are 5+ years out of college and into your aviation career. I really don't see the point of having a "backup" degree at that point.

Having a "backup" is an extremely small part of the reasons to get an non aviation degree.

Right now everyone reading my posts who wants an aviation degree is saying, "oh, but it'll be different with me. I'll develop good habits, I'll take rounded electives, etc." No, you won't. A few years into your first airline job you'll realize you screwed up big and can't fix it. You'll realize that the guy sitting next to you has the same certificates, the same job, the same relevant knowledge as you, and he didn't blow $200k on a worthless degree. You'll realize that the amount of debt you'll have from school could have bought you a nice house.

But most of you will do it anyway because you either don't believe me (remember this moment a few years into your first airline), or you think it'll be different for you.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus that ate your iPhone.

 

[Mountainfoot]

Utah Valley University might be another option.

UVU offers an online aviation management (and professional pilot I believe) degree for ~$200 a credit hour. If all of your previous courses transfer you'd probably need ~60 credit hours to graduate, thus ~$12,000 + books for your BS.

If you were particularly motivated, you could likely take a few courses a semester, hold a part time job, learn to fly locally, and graduate with minimal debt.

 

[Maurus]

Having a "backup" is an extremely small part of the reasons to get an non aviation degree.

Right now everyone reading my posts who wants an aviation degree is saying, "oh, but it'll be different with me. I'll develop good habits, I'll take rounded electives, etc." No, you won't. A few years into your first airline job you'll realize you screwed up big and can't fix it. You'll realize that the guy sitting next to you has the same certificates, the same job, the same relevant knowledge as you, and he didn't blow $200k on a worthless degree. You'll realize that the amount of debt you'll have from school could have bought you a nice house.

Not every aviation degree is Riddlized debt. I know several good colleges where the pricing is essentially 4 year degree +61 training in cost. Maybe a bit higher, but no where near $200K. Not to mention a lot of them don't require you to actually attend the flight portion of the college. You can get the ratings at a local FBO and turn copies of the certificates in for credits. That is exactly what I did.

Assuming an aviation degree is $200k is just another fallacy you are spouting.

Don't forget that this industry is about to get extremely competitive at the higher levels. When HR runs their computer programs for selecting interviewees part of the formula may involve the type of degree. It happens at some airlines already. Spirit is an example. Tried looking others up but "preferred/competitive requirements" aren't always posted or they just don't have anything posted if they aren't currently hiring or taking resumes.

Again, you don't have an aviation degree. Assuming they lack study habits because they got a degree in something they actually enjoy rather than forcing something else through is stupid.

But most of you will do it anyway because you either don't believe me (remember this moment a few years into your first airline), or you think it'll be different for you.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus that ate your iPhone.

I haven't done 121, but I have been in the industry for 5 years now. 135 cargo right now. I know people with their masters and some without any degree at all doing the exact same job as me. Something you don't realize is that the regionals and my currently employer have been known to hire people that barely have a heartbeat. Degrees rarely matter at the entry levels of aviation. If you have the required FAA mins you will likely get hired.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

When I was in my first 121 ground school, the people with aviation degrees thought it was the hardest thing they'd ever done (like drinking from a fire hose). I thought it was a snoozer, compared to my college classes it was a walk in the park. Other people with engineering and other degrees felt similar.

As someone with an engineering background as well, certainly my experience has been the same. Nothing aviation related has been difficult to learn at all compared to college. I learned to fly part-time in school, and it took very little effort compared to engineering course work.

As a CFI, folks with a engineering background have often been the best students - they grasp concepts quickly, study on their own when they don't know something, and aren't afraid of math. Airline pilots are often among the worst - they expect things to be spoon-fed, act like they know everything, and take critique poorly. I know this is a generalization and anecdotal, but has been my experience.

 

[Maurus]

As someone with an engineering background as well, certainly my experience has been the same. Nothing aviation related has been difficult to learn at all compared to college. I learned to fly part-time in school, and it took very little effort compared to engineering course work.

As a CFI, folks with a engineering background have often been the best students - they grasp concepts quickly, study on their own when they don't know something, and aren't afraid of math. Airline pilots are often among the worst - they expect things to be spoon-fed, act like they know everything, and take critique poorly. I know this is a generalization and anecdotal, but has been my experience.

Obviously an engineering degree would be tougher. I started it and didn't like it. I did it long enough to know it would be a tough degree. The question in the end is would an engineering degree translate well into a backup career if you fly for X airline for 5-10 years? Will you remember what you learned in school at the level you need to do an engineering job anymore? Is all the extra stress during those 4-5 years for the degree really worth the slight advantage you will have in ground school for an airline?

The only good backup degrees are generic degrees such as a business degree, but then again that wont be as hard as an engineering degree and I bet they would suck at studying too.

 

[SA227driver]

As someone with an engineering background as well, certainly my experience has been the same. Nothing aviation related has been difficult to learn at all compared to college. I learned to fly part-time in school, and it took very little effort compared to engineering course work.

As a CFI, folks with a engineering background have often been the best students - they grasp concepts quickly, study on their own when they don't know something, and aren't afraid of math. Airline pilots are often among the worst - they expect things to be spoon-fed, act like they know everything, and take critique poorly. I know this is a generalization and anecdotal, but has been my experience.

Are you referring to airline guys who come in to get checked out in a 172 expect to be spoon fed?

Going from a turboprop to a large jet transport category aircraft probably has been the steepest learning curve in my aviation career. Not one of my fellow classmates has expected our airline to spoon feed us any information in ground school. They have given us the foundation and all the real learning has taken place in after class group study sessions.

 

[Ralgha]

You're not grasping the point. People that do aviation degrees, by and large, are obsessed with the subject. They've already been eating up everything they can find about it. Combine that with subject matter that simply isn't difficult (this is a turbine engine, I could explain the whole thing to you in 30 minutes, but we're going to spread it over a whole semester), and there's no need to study, not seriously anyway. Good study habits come from necessity, because of the nature of aviation, that necessity isn't there.

Most other subjects are not the same, be it engineering, business, science, arts, whatever. The prior knowledge isn't there that most aviation students have, and the breadth of study is huge.

There won't be any competition for airline jobs. They will need so many pilots that all you'll need to know is your name.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus that ate your iPhone.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

Are you referring to airline guys who come in to get checked out in a 172 expect to be spoon fed?

Much more so teaching glider flying, very different skill set, lots of new stuff to learn. Pretty much everyone remembers something about flying a 172.

Most of the airline folks I fly with are much better pilots than I'll ever be, and are great students too. The difficult cases definitely stand out though

 

[killbilly]

You're not grasping the point. People that do aviation degrees, by and large, are obsessed with the subject. They've already been eating up everything they can find about it. Combine that with subject matter that simply isn't difficult (this is a turbine engine, I could explain the whole thing to you in 30 minutes, but we're going to spread it over a whole semester), and there's no need to study, not seriously anyway. Good study habits come from necessity, because of the nature of aviation, that necessity isn't there.

Most other subjects are not the same, be it engineering, business, science, arts, whatever. The prior knowledge isn't there that most aviation students have, and the breadth of study is huge.

There won't be any competition for airline jobs. They will need so many pilots that all you'll need to know is your name.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus that ate your iPhone.

You can get an aviation degree simply because you want one.

 

[Maurus]

You're not grasping the point. People that do aviation degrees, by and large, are obsessed with the subject. They've already been eating up everything they can find about it. Combine that with subject matter that simply isn't difficult (this is a turbine engine, I could explain the whole thing to you in 30 minutes, but we're going to spread it over a whole semester), and there's no need to study, not seriously anyway. Good study habits come from necessity, because of the nature of aviation, that necessity isn't there.

Most other subjects are not the same, be it engineering, business, science, arts, whatever. The prior knowledge isn't there that most aviation students have, and the breadth of study is huge..

Again. You are talking about something you do not know. Have you taken any aviation degree classes that weren't meant to coincide with the flight portion? They get quite a bit more technical than the suck, squeeze, bang, blow portion of jet engines and such.

You are right that aviation degree people love the stuff. Maybe, GASP, that is why they want the degree! They want to know more and actually enjoy what they are learning in college rather than pushing a stick up there butt for 4-5 years in a doing a degree they wont necessarily enjoy.

There won't be any competition for airline jobs. They will need so many pilots that all you'll need to know is your name.

If you think you can just walk into a Major and just grab a job when this hiring wave starts with no competition you will be kidding yourself. As you know seniority is everything. I'm doing my best to make sure I get in as close to the beginning of the hiring wave as I can. That is where the competition will exist. I'm not going to sit back and wait to be hired at a major sometime in the next 10 years when the competitive requirements levels drop to my level.