ATP WRITTEN

Beech90 said:
Sorry. Revoke the written, not the entire ATP rule. I agree with the 1500, not the written.
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I'm not the biggest fan of the rule (since 3 years ago I'd be at an airline by now) but I can see the reasoning behind it and ultimately think it's a good thing.

The written changes? Seems like overkill. Not sure exactly what they think it's going to accomplish.
 
just a friendly reminder to the guys taking the written then building time... 1500 hours isn't very hard, but the 500 hours xc time might be. I never "took advantage" of my students and that is where I came up short for my atp...
 
bucksmith said:
just a friendly reminder to the guys taking the written then building time... 1500 hours isn't very hard, but the 500 hours xc time might be. I never "took advantage" of my students and that is where I came up short for my atp...
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The xc time was easy for me. Enough trips to St. Lawrence Island and I had it down quickly.
 
bucksmith said:
just a friendly reminder to the guys taking the written then building time... 1500 hours isn't very hard, but the 500 hours xc time might be. I never "took advantage" of my students and that is where I came up short for my atp...
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200 with the restricted :)
 
Screaming_Emu said:
airlines are going to have to fund/provide the training required for your ATP written. There's just no way it is going to stand the way it is and still have people show up for class.
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That'll be great to hear shortly - in addition to paying for your type rating by means of a low salary, we get to "pay" for this ATP written stuff that will likely cost companies more for training. It just gets passed down to us one way or another.

Thanks, Obama.
 
JordanD said:
I'm not the biggest fan of the rule (since 3 years ago I'd be at an airline by now) but I can see the reasoning behind it and ultimately think it's a good thing.

The written changes? Seems like overkill. Not sure exactly what they think it's going to accomplish.
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You'd be a lot closer if you listened to advice a little more.

I honestly think we are at the tip of the iceberg when it comes to recruiting issues at regionals. It's gonna have to get better and these rules are part of the reason.
 
Serious question, but how does the "new requirement" differ from the current 121 training requirements? Sounds to me like it will be more of a tweak for them and they can issue your license along with your type ride.
Maybe I am not getting something, but it doesn't seem like the sky is falling. Now if I had the chance to get it the old way, I would definitely go that route, but I don't think this is going to equal mass hysteria. As always, there will probably be some unintended things that happen.
 
ScorpionStinger said:
The FAA can be sued by the pilot profession! I'm willing to "invest" $$$$ into the lawsuit need be. Enough pilots cry out foul, things can be done to change it. $10,000+ on top high training costs already burdened by pilots? Unprecedented! The is just ridiculous demands and burdens placed on pilots by the FAA. It's unattainable (looking at the poverty rate) by the average american seeking an education/profession to better themselves.

My uneducated guess is: The FAA will exempt those seeking to fly in the airlines( Part 121- regionals/commuters). So part of the airline interview will be to pass some kind of a moc written exam (i.e. something similar to a ShepAir practice tests/resulting in a passing score before being given a job offer). Once hired you'll complete the new hire course which includes level D Sim ride (just like the ATP Written law requires) you'll then be qualified to take your ATP Written exam (which you will be prepared for).

It's not only the smart thing to do, it's also the most ethical route which our beloved FAA could take to abolish such a high BARRIER of ENTRY into the pilot profession. I don't see this ATP Written law lasting long term. It does nothing to enhance "safety" if you ask me.
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Sovereign immunity. Have a nice day!
 
e6bflyer said:
Serious question, but how does the "new requirement" differ from the current 121 training requirements? Sounds to me like it will be more of a tweak for them and they can issue your license along with your type ride.
Maybe I am not getting something, but it doesn't seem like the sky is falling. Now if I had the chance to get it the old way, I would definitely go that route, but I don't think this is going to equal mass hysteria. As always, there will probably be some unintended things that happen.
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You're right, the sky is not falling.

But that generally does nothing to thwart the internet.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
While I can't say I've heard anything one way or another, though I'm out of the loop, I believe that if 121 is your goal, this won't be a big deal. With the industry the way it currently is, airlines are going to have to fund/provide the training required for your ATP written. There's just no way it is going to stand the way it is and still have people show up for class.

That said, I would have to agree that for smaller 135 operators the new requirements might be a bit much.
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Re: this and @ScorpionStinger 's comment about suing the FAA. I suspect this new rule was driven by the airlines and exactly what the airlines want. It kinda sorta makes for a whole load of indentured servants. What's better than paying pilots very little? Paying them even less 'cause they've got 'em by the short hairs.
 
Crop Duster said:
Re: this and @ScorpionStinger 's comment about suing the FAA. I suspect this new rule was driven by the airlines and exactly what the airlines want. It kinda sorta makes for a whole load of indentured servants. What's better than paying pilots very little? Paying them even less 'cause they've got 'em by the short hairs.
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No way, that's not at all what they want. They want the least qualified candidate so they can pay them as little as possible. They don't even want you to stick around long, that's when you become expensive.

But nobody is going to pay an EXTRA $15k to work at an airline. They're having a difficult enough time without that requirement. Even if one says "we'll pay for it, but you're stuck here for low pay and you need to stay for 3 years" all it takes is one other airline to say "here's a bonus and you can leave when you want" and that airline would end up with all the pilots.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
No way, that's not at all what they want. They want the least qualified candidate so they can pay them as little as possible. They don't even want you to stick around long, that's when you become expensive.

But nobody is going to pay an EXTRA $15k to work at an airline. They're having a difficult enough time without that requirement. Even if one says "we'll pay for it, but you're stuck here for low pay and you need to stay for 3 years" all it takes is one other airline to say "here's a bonus and you can leave when you want" and that airline would end up with all the pilots.
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That sounds reasonable. On the other hand, Airlineapps.com makes it seem like there may be some in-cahoots going on. I'm ignorant and will allow others to discuss. But it sounds suspiciously like the MIB. That's the Medical Information Bureau. A "non-profit", "non-affiliated" aggregator of every medical claim filed by any insurance company to which every insurance company has access and which is managed by the insurance companies. Things that make you go hmmm, hmm? The similarity of the acronym to that of Men In Black is only a coincidence, but a lovely one.
 
Guys, this is not going to be that big of a deal. The airlines will incorporate the ATP written in to their new hire training with some minor modifications. This post lays it all out pretty well how it should work.

http://www.airlinepilotinfo.com/how-regional-airlines-might-deal-with-new-atp-written-requirements/

I think the biggest issues will be the following-

1.) The instructors have to have ATPs with 2 years airline experience, who are these people?
2.) The Level D sim must be for a model of airplane with a MGTOW of 40,000 lbs or higher (that's a 50 seat airplane pretty much). Some 121 carriers only fly Saabs or 1900's and that won't cut it.
 
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propsync said:
Guys, this is not going to be that big of a deal. The airlines will incorporate the ATP written in to their new hire training with some minor modifications. This post lays it all out pretty well how it should work.

http://www.airlinepilotinfo.com/how-regional-airlines-might-deal-with-new-atp-written-requirements/

I think the biggest issues will be the following-

1.) The instructors have to have ATPs with 2 years airline experience, who are these people?
2.) The Level D sim must be for a model of airplane with a MGTOW of 40,000 lbs or higher (that's a 50 seat airplane pretty much). Some 121 carriers only fly Saabs or 1900's and that won't cut it.
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Airlines will pay for it? awesome! That means if you want to get anywhere in the aviation industry you are now REQUIRED to suck it up and make sub 20K for a year at a regional.

I guess that's how they planned to take care of the pilot shortage.

...anybody wanna crowdsource a lawyer to get a court to impose an injunction on the written rule or would that even be possible at this point?
 
propsync said:
Guys, this is not going to be that big of a deal. The airlines will incorporate the ATP written in to their new hire training with some minor modifications. This post lays it all out pretty well how it should work.

http://www.airlinepilotinfo.com/how-regional-airlines-might-deal-with-new-atp-written-requirements/

I think the biggest issues will be the following-

1.) The instructors have to have ATPs with 2 years airline experience, who are these people?
2.) The Level D sim must be for a model of airplane with a MGTOW of 40,000 lbs or higher (that's a 50 seat airplane pretty much). Some 121 carriers only fly Saabs or 1900's and that won't cut it.
Click to expand...

While I agree that this won't be a big deal for the airlines, not all ATPs are given out by the airlines. I got mine in a Citation Mustang and that plane has a MTOW of less than 10K. On the 91/135, the 40K weight requirement pretty much means a Challenger.

I just went through an initial type at CAE/Dallas in June and they seemed to have no idea how this is going to work. How will the companies without Challengers/Gulfstreams/Globals handle this new requirement? Will they pay for someone to get the time in a sim representing a bigger airplane just to then have to pay for the full type rating of the plane they actually fly?

My bet is that the FAA takes out the 40K requirement, or at least grants waivers to airlines that don't fly RJ and heavier aircraft (Silver, Commutair, etc) and sim schools (CAE, Flight Safety, etc). Not doing so will cripple a lot of this industry.
 
ScorpionStinger said:
The FAA can be sued by the pilot profession! I'm willing to "invest" $$$$ into the lawsuit need be. Enough pilots cry out foul, things can be done to change it. $10,000+ on top high training costs already burdened by pilots? Unprecedented! The is just ridiculous demands and burdens placed on pilots by the FAA. It's unattainable (looking at the poverty rate) by the average american seeking an education/profession to better themselves.

My uneducated guess is: The FAA will exempt those seeking to fly in the airlines( Part 121- regionals/commuters). So part of the airline interview will be to pass some kind of a moc written exam (i.e. something similar to a ShepAir practice tests/resulting in a passing score before being given a job offer). Once hired you'll complete the new hire course which includes level D Sim ride (just like the ATP Written law requires) you'll then be qualified to take your ATP Written exam (which you will be prepared for).

It's not only the smart thing to do, it's also the most ethical route which our beloved FAA could take to abolish such a high BARRIER of ENTRY into the pilot profession. I don't see this ATP Written law lasting long term. It does nothing to enhance "safety" if you ask me.
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How much time do you have?
 
oh awesome i will be looking for a cfi job to get these hours up in a years time will be busting my ass doing so lol

if it was easy everybody will do it lol
 
ScorpionStinger said:
The FAA can be sued by the pilot profession! I'm willing to "invest" $$$$ into the lawsuit need be. Enough pilots cry out foul, things can be done to change it. $10,000+ on top high training costs already burdened by pilots? Unprecedented! The is just ridiculous demands and burdens placed on pilots by the FAA. It's unattainable (looking at the poverty rate) by the average american seeking an education/profession to better themselves.

My uneducated guess is: The FAA will exempt those seeking to fly in the airlines( Part 121- regionals/commuters). So part of the airline interview will be to pass some kind of a moc written exam (i.e. something similar to a ShepAir practice tests/resulting in a passing score before being given a job offer). Once hired you'll complete the new hire course which includes level D Sim ride (just like the ATP Written law requires) you'll then be qualified to take your ATP Written exam (which you will be prepared for).

It's not only the smart thing to do, it's also the most ethical route which our beloved FAA could take to abolish such a high BARRIER of ENTRY into the pilot profession. I don't see this ATP Written law lasting long term. It does nothing to enhance "safety" if you ask me.
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The real class, if you're looking, is found in all the holders of pilot certificates earned in good faith through 61 and 141 rules who suddenly through new regulation find their certificates are somehow different....

If you were looking for a class, those are the people with a legitimate claim.
 
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