ATP Morals Clause

dustoff17

Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
Does anyone here have any insight with regards to the morals clause of the ATP?

Does the FFA (I know!) ever enforce or pursue this or is it just garbage writings? How does enforcement of this come about? Is enforcement always attached to an investigation that involves other violations or do they open a morals violation investigation?

A lot of questions but I haven’t found these answers in my searching…
 

ppragman

FLIPY FLAPS!
Does anyone here have any insight with regards to the morals clause of the ATP?

Does the FFA (I know!) ever enforce or pursue this or is it just garbage writings? How does enforcement of this come about? Is enforcement always attached to an investigation that involves other violations or do they open a morals violation investigation?

A lot of questions but I haven’t found these answers in my searching…
I don’t know, but if personal and anecdotal experience is worth anything they’ll give practically anyone an ATP, and crimes - even ones I find pretty bleak from a morals standpoint - don’t seem to stop people who’ve already gotten one from using their privileges.
 

Box hauler

Well-Known Member
Just a personal rule of thumb but I figure if anyone is ever concerned about the moral requirement of obtaining an ATP, they probably have much more important things to assess in their lives before wondering how their behavior could effect them getting their ATP.
 

///AMG

Well-Known Member
It isn't like there is a morality quiz during the oral or anything. I imagine it is more of a catch-all for folks that get caught up in questionable conduct/behavior, than it is a screening item up front (though I'm not a DPE). Similar to "conduct unbecoming an officer" in the military, or "X hrs bottle to throttle and free from the effects"
 

CFI A&P

Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Does anyone here have any insight with regards to the morals clause of the ATP?

Does the FFA (I know!) ever enforce or pursue this or is it just garbage writings? How does enforcement of this come about? Is enforcement always attached to an investigation that involves other violations or do they open a morals violation investigation?

A lot of questions but I haven’t found these answers in my searching…

Not from personal experience, but I do know that being charged with domestic battery doesn’t meet this threshold.
 

Minuteman

“Dongola”
My understanding (based on rumot) is that the FFA basically uses the same "good moral character" standard used by Homeland Security for naturalization.

Specifically, 8 CFR 316.10 (I think the "statutory period" is, like, two years?):

(b) Finding of a lack of good moral character.

(1) An applicant shall be found to lack good moral character, if the applicant has been:

(i) Convicted of murder at any time; or

(ii) Convicted of an aggravated felony as defined in section 101(a)(43) of the Act on or after November 29, 1990.

(2) An applicant shall be found to lack good moral character if during the statutory period the applicant:

(i) Committed one or more crimes involving moral turpitude, other than a purely political offense, for which the applicant was convicted, except as specified in section 212(a)(2)(ii)(II) of the Act;

(ii) Committed two or more offenses for which the applicant was convicted and the aggregate sentence actually imposed was five years or more, provided that, if the offense was committed outside the United States, it was not a purely political offense;

(iii) Violated any law of the United States, any State, or any foreign country relating to a controlled substance, provided that the violation was not a single offense for simple possession of 30 grams or less of marijuana;

(iv) Admits committing any criminal act covered by paragraphs (b)(2) (i), (ii), or (iii) of this section for which there was never a formal charge, indictment, arrest, or conviction, whether committed in the United States or any other country;

(v) Is or was confined to a penal institution for an aggregate of 180 days pursuant to a conviction or convictions (provided that such confinement was not outside the United States due to a conviction outside the United States for a purely political offense);

(vi) Has given false testimony to obtain any benefit from the Act, if the testimony was made under oath or affirmation and with an intent to obtain an immigration benefit; this prohibition applies regardless of whether the information provided in the false testimony was material, in the sense that if given truthfully it would have rendered ineligible for benefits either the applicant or the person on whose behalf the applicant sought the benefit;

(vii) Is or was involved in prostitution or commercialized vice as described in section 212(a)(2)(D) of the Act;

(viii) Is or was involved in the smuggling of a person or persons into the United States as described in section 212(a)(6)(E) of the Act;

(ix) Has practiced or is practicing polygamy;

(x) Committed two or more gambling offenses for which the applicant was convicted;

(xi) Earns his or her income principally from illegal gambling activities; or

(xii) Is or was a habitual drunkard.

(3) Unless the applicant establishes extenuating circumstances, the applicant shall be found to lack good moral character if, during the statutory period, the applicant:

(i) Willfully failed or refused to support dependents;

(ii) Had an extramarital affair which tended to destroy an existing marriage; or

(iii) Committed unlawful acts that adversely reflect upon the applicant's moral character, or was convicted or imprisoned for such acts, although the acts do not fall within the purview of § 316.10(b) (1) or (2).
 

ppragman

FLIPY FLAPS!
My understanding (based on rumot) is that the FFA basically uses the same "good moral character" standard used by Homeland Security for naturalization.

Specifically, 8 CFR 316.10 (I think the "statutory period" is, like, two years?):
“Is it was a habitual drunkard”
I mean, that can’t be correct they gave me and most of my friends an ATP.
 

dustoff17

Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
It seems like a clause that’s used to revoke an ATP rather than prohibit someone from getting one
Seems so, used to revoke when other issues are present but not as a single action. Sad……

Thank you to all that provided information pertinent to my query!
 
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