ATP Mistake

Well, Mr Bluehen, for your information, the airline interview process has 2 or more pilots with an interviewer, so if you are saying that ATP's style of 2 pilots per examiner is bad, then you are saying that the airlines don't know what they are doing either!
 
What I am saying is that in the learning process, when you are obtaining your ratings, I think it is a bad thing if you have 2 students taking an oral exam together with an examiner. How can the examiner be sure that you both know all the required material. In fact, that was what they were joking about at ATP, how much easier it is when you have 2 students together during the exam. Now, when you have 1000's of hours, and all your ratings, then it is a different story when you have a job interview together. When did I say that either the Examiner or the airlines dont know what they are doing.
 
Update on Refund

Just an update on the refund. I attempted to contact the women from finances at ATP several times today. I finally got through. I asked her about the refund as well as the 1000 deposit that was supposed to get credited back to me. She was very indignant and curt, and said that "Were very busy here" and "I didnt call you back because I didnt have anything to tell you". Wow, I know there busy, busy enough to take your money and say that they need it right away for the training, and can fed ex out the paper work. But I guess there too busy to talk to someone about getting there money back, Or refunding the deposit on the time they said they would, which was the time of the first disbursement. Maybe I am the only one who has met with this problem, lets see if they stick to their word about having the funds sent back to the lender within 10 days. Maybe a call to the Better business bureau would help. If it sounds like i am getting pissed, I am.

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What types of complaints does the BBB handle?
Complaints involving marketplace activities -- misleading advertising, improper selling practices, non-delivery of goods or services, misrepresentation, un-honored guarantees or warranty, unsatisfactory service, credit/billing problems, contracts not fulfilled, etc., are handled by the Better Business Bureau where the company is located.

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BBB of Northeast Florida
4417 Beach Blvd., Suite 202
Jacksonville, FL 32207

BBB Reliability Report

Airline Transport Professionals, Inc.
Po Box 1784
Ponte Vedra, FL 32004
MAP
General Information
Original Business
Start Date unknown

BBB File Opened June 12, 1997

Principal Contact Owner/Manager

Complaint Contact Owner/Manager

Other Contacts none

BBB Member No
Type of Business Airlines-Training Schools


The information in this report has either been provided by the company, or has been compiled by the Bureau from other sources.


Additional File Information
The Bureau has requested basic information from this company. The Bureau has not received a response.

Additional Information

This Business Operates under the Names Airline Transport Professionals, Inc.


Addresses Po Box 1784, Ponte Vedra, FL 32004 MAP


Phones (904) 273-3018



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What I am saying is that in the learning process, when you are obtaining your ratings, I think it is a bad thing if you have 2 students taking an oral exam together with an examiner. How can the examiner be sure that you both know all the required material. In fact, that was what they were joking about at ATP, how much easier it is when you have 2 students together during the exam. Now, when you have 1000's of hours, and all your ratings, then it is a different story when you have a job interview together. When did I say that either the Examiner or the airlines dont know what they are doing.

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Examiners only do dual orals because the FAA has said it is ok to do so, and as for he being able to tell each students knowledge, thats his job and im sure he's good at it. If the examiner doesnt think he can do that, you wont do a dual oral. Its not ATP's decision there, its the examiners willingness.

Which examiner were you going to go with anyway? I instructed in manassas for 6 months, and if it is who i think it is you most assuredly would not have had the problem of it being "easier", hes one of the tougher examiners i can name off the top of my head.
 
Casey,
I think I met you back in november when I did the initial interview. Too bad you didnt stay, I would prob. have had a much better experience. If you scroll through some of my orevious posts, I mentioned that you were very knowledgeable, so I'm not going to get into anything with you. Im just sorry you werent there when I got there.
 
Ouch, I've hear similiar stories about ATP, as well as other big flight schools. Sorry to hear. Glad I didnt go.
 
Re: Update on Refund

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I attempted to contact the women from finances at ATP several times today. I finally got through. I asked her about the refund as well as the 1000 deposit that was supposed to get credited back to me. She was very indignant and curt, and said that "Were very busy here" and "I didnt call you back because I didnt have anything to tell you".

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I've worked with Diane numerous times to work out various issues that popped up with Key Bank and I have always found her to be prompt and courteous.
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Wow, I know there busy, busy enough to take your money and say that they need it right away for the training, and can fed ex out the paper work. But I guess there too busy to talk to someone about getting there money back, Or refunding the deposit on the time they said they would, which was the time of the first disbursement.

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The financial process takes longer than 48-72 hours. You'll get your money back so I wouldn't be sweating it up there in VA.
 
You did WOT in a bean bag chair, Don?
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Like Don said, I like to keep it friendly and give everyone a place where they feel free to speak.
 
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How can the examiner be sure that you both know all the required material. In fact, that was what they were joking about at ATP, how much easier it is when you have 2 students together during the exam.

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I did the 90 day program in Manassas and instructed there for two months prior to moving to our Norfolk location. I am very familiar with all of the examiners there and I can assure you that any one of them would have had no problems busting you if they did not feel that you were prepared. All a dual oral means is that there are two applicants in the room. It in no way means that somebody who is not prepared is going to slide because his training partner happens to know his stuff.


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It became quickly evident that the instructor there, while a nice guy, taught directly out of the "Seminole supplement" they send you. This wasnt so bad, but when he tried to talk about things that werent in the supplement, ie.. basic aerodynamics, basic pilot knowledge, etc. it became quickly evident that he was either A) Not very well versed in the information B) Didnt know what he was talking about C) Both the Above. I chose C, and quickly decided to opt out of the program.

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I think that it is very pretentious for a private pilot to judge a CFI's aviation knowledge. Remeber, to be a CFI, MEI, II, as all ATP instructors are, a person has to pass three seperate rides with FAA examiners. I can assure you that these are not easy rides. Furthermore, if this person's knowledge was so lacking I find it very hard to believe that he would have been hired by ATP, let alone allowed out of the office.

I am sorry that you had what you feel was a bad experience, however one day is not enough to truly judge a CFI and the organization that he works for.
 
Well, I can only quote myself on this one. A fact is a fact.


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It became quickly evident that the instructor there, while a nice guy, taught directly out of the "Seminole supplement" they send you. This wasnt so bad, but when he tried to talk about things that werent in the supplement, ie.. basic aerodynamics, basic pilot knowledge, etc. it became quickly evident that he was either A) Not very well versed in the information B) Didnt know what he was talking about C) Both the Above. I chose C, and quickly decided to opt out of the program.

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Maybe it was one of the reasons for forgetting that he didnt remember:

1) Disuse
2) Interference
3) Repression

Either way, you can say it is pretentious but is pretty bad.

Also, I can only "judge" based on my experience from the instructors to the financial aid personnell, to the head honcho of the company. All I wanted to do was to quit the program and I got a raft of S#$T from all of them, minus the instructor.

Wouldnt it also be pretentious to judge someone else when you werent there?
 
I am not judging you. However, it seems as though you are implying that the CFI is unqualified. You only gave him one day, much of which was devoted to paper work. In that one day you decided that he was not qualified enough to be your instructor. You also took issue with an established method by which the FAA conducts checkrides. So you, the private pilot, know more than a CFI, MEI, II, you know more than a FAA designated examiner and the entire Airmen Certification Branch of the FAA. Wow.
 
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I am not judging you.

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Yes you are by writing the above post.

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However, it seems as though you are implying that the CFI is unqualified. You only gave him one day, much of which was devoted to paper work.

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What would you call it if he doesnt know the basics of aerodynamics. How the pitot-static system works, etc...

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In that one day you decided that he was not qualified enough to be your instructor.

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Your right I did. Im paying 37k for the program, not you, not him, not the double 'J's".

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You also took issue with an established method by which the FAA conducts checkrides. So you, the private pilot, know more than a CFI, MEI, II, you know more than a FAA designated examiner and the entire Airmen Certification Branch of the FAA. Wow.

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Did I ever say that? Read back through all my posts and find where I did.

Its a real shame Because I was so looking forward to going to ATP.
 
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Does anybody out there know anything about ATP Norfolk or the instructors there? I am thinking about doing the 10 month program there and was curious to see if anybody had any prior experiences with the office or instructors. Thanks. [\quote]

Did you just write this?
 
First of all, I did write that post, as discussed in previous posts. I wanted to see what people thought of the location.

You did object to a two personal oral exam. This is a long established way of doing things. By taking issue with the two person oral you are objecting to the examiner's methods and the FAA's.

If you are honestly going to tell me that a CFII does not know how a pitot static system works, then you are right, that person is unqualified. However, I would guess that what is more likely to have happened is that you had a brand new instructor who was probably nervous. You have every right to object to having a new instructor. You could have very easily requested a new instructor and continued on in the program. Instead you judged an entire organization in less than one day.
 
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And how do you do a dual oral exam with an F.A.A examiner? Thats another thing I forgot to mention... THey were going to set us up for a dual oral with the examiner before the checkride.

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What I am saying is that in the learning process, when you are obtaining your ratings, I think it is a bad thing if you have 2 students taking an oral exam together with an examiner. How can the examiner be sure that you both know all the required material. In fact, that was what they were joking about at ATP, how much easier it is when you have 2 students together during the exam. Now, when you have 1000's of hours, and all your ratings, then it is a different story when you have a job interview together. When did I say that either the Examiner or the airlines dont know what they are doing

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Thats what I said about the 2 person oral exam. AS I mentioned before, when did I say I know more then a CFI, CFII, MEI or the FAA or the AIRLINES?

Maybe I should go to Norfolk so you can be my instructor.

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It became quickly evident that the instructor there, while a nice guy, taught directly out of the "Seminole supplement" they send you...

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Just to set the record straight. He was a nice guy.
 
LC and Flying Turkey don't like me very much for some reason. One called me Pond Scum and the other thought I sit naked in a beanbag chair and eat Cheeto's when I post.

What's funny about that is...I really do have a beanbag chair. It looks like a big orange basketball. Pretty cool. And I even sit in it naked sometimes...but I hate Cheeto's.
 
This is way off topic, but I heard a funny joke about nakedness, eating cheetos and a visit to the doctor, but it's certainly not PG-13!
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Sounds like the one with the guy who was naked, standing on a ladder changing a lightbulb. He accidentally fell on a flashlight and you can guess where it got stuck.. At least, thats the story he told the doctors who had to remove it.
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