ATC Helicopter Takeoff/Landing question

[tcco94]

My new airport (KDVT) has lots of GA traffic, which includes lots of helos. I haven't really paid much attention during my training as a student or had helos in the area to notice, but now everytime I hear them cleared for takeoff or to land controllers include "land at your own risk".

Why is that?

I have seen helos enter to land on runways and then sidestep to their parking spot (which would make DVT traffic even more hectic) but is that a safety net from you guys if something were to happen during their takeoff/landing phase?

 

[Lawman]

Hovering to and from non movement areas...

Landing without using the conventional aircraft traffic pattern...

Takeoff/landing to taxiways via the runway direction (I.E. Air taxi sidestep as soon as your over the numbers)


Look it's pretty simple, we scare the normal people. What with our black magic voodoo aerodynamics of a constant speed 400knot airfoil in a circular rotation.

 

[ajmezz]

Land at your own risk is used for non movement areas (ramps, clsd rwys, etc) and places not in view from the tower.

 

[tcco94]

Look it's pretty simple, we scare the normal people. What with our black magic voodoo aerodynamics of a constant speed 400knot airfoil in a circular rotation.

Thanks guys. Everytime a student or friend asks me about helicopters, I immediately say "I don't know". Heard it again and kept trying to think about why they said that.

Now I can relax that I have a question I really don't need to know, answered.

 

[Stinger]

Thanks guys. Everytime a student or friend asks me about helicopters, I immediately say "I don't know". Heard it again and kept trying to think about why they said that.

Now I can relax that I have a question I really don't need to know, answered.

You never heard the controllers say "landing at your own risk" while you were in Billings? We had HelpFlight, Eagle Med, and the big Sikorsky helicopters that were all in and out every day.

 

[tcco94]

You never heard the controllers say "landing at your own risk" while you were in Billings? We had HelpFlight, Eagle Med, and the big Sikorsky helicopters that were all in and out every day.

Yeah, you know, that's what held me from asking. I felt a little embarrassed I didn't listen that closely when I was a student up there but then again most of my flights didn't have helos around. The thing I remember most about BIL traffic was the rush around 5 pm. My practice approaches would always be cut short from that but I figured I would have remembered hearing it from them or the Billings Flying service.

Maybe I listen better to everyone's call now that I sit there and don't do much here...that being said, there's lots of helo traffic here in DVT..lol.

The only other previous thing I remember that I didn't know what it was, is when I got "caution prop wash, cleared for takeoff XX"... I just acted the same as wake turbulence because I didn't know how to caution prop wash.

 

[Stinger]

Yeah, you know, that's what held me from asking. I felt a little embarrassed I didn't listen that closely when I was a student up there but then again most of my flights didn't have helos around. The thing I remember most about BIL traffic was the rush around 5 pm. My practice approaches would always be cut short from that but I figured I would have remembered hearing it from them or the Billings Flying service.

Maybe I listen better to everyone's call now that I sit there and don't do much here...that being said, there's lots of helo traffic here in DVT..lol.

The only other previous thing I remember that I didn't know what it was, is when I got "caution prop wash, cleared for takeoff XX"... I just acted the same as wake turbulence because I didn't know how to caution prop wash.

I hated seeing how often the practice approaches got screwed over between 6-7pm. There were some people there that wouldn't even attempt to fit Rocky in with everyone else. VFR practice approaches are the absolute lowest priority for ATC, but there's no way I was going to make you guys hold somewhere for 30 minutes. It wasn't all that difficult to squeeze a cargo plane in front of you or give them a longer vector for spacing on final to follow you.

 

[tcco94]

I hated seeing how often the practice approaches got screwed over between 6-7pm. There were some people there that wouldn't even attempt to fit Rocky in with everyone else. VFR practice approaches are the absolute lowest priority for ATC, but there's no way I was going to make you guys hold somewhere for 30 minutes. It wasn't all that difficult to squeeze a cargo plane in front of you or give them a longer vector for spacing on final to follow you.

I remember coming in during actual conditions on a local IFR and rerouted 3 times on final of 10L because of that rush.

Some were definitely worse than others. I will say that it definitely seemed to get better over time. In 2012 when I was new, it seemed like some controllers couldn't handle 3 or more planes in the airspace at times and the "rush" was always a huge deal. Last year, they were definitely a lot more accommodating. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that though. I generally would try to keep my mouth shut because after taking an ATC class and simulating all that stuff and separation and etc. I definitely had no idea what busy was and non busy was for a controller.

 

[Stinger]

I remember coming in during actual conditions on a local IFR and rerouted 3 times on final of 10L because of that rush.

Some were definitely worse than others. I will say that it definitely seemed to get better over time. In 2012 when I was new, it seemed like some controllers couldn't handle 3 or more planes in the airspace at times and the "rush" was always a huge deal. Last year, they were definitely a lot more accommodating. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that though. I generally would try to keep my mouth shut because after taking an ATC class and simulating all that stuff and separation and etc. I definitely had no idea what busy was and non busy was for a controller.

I'm not surprised by your timeline one bit haha. There was a lot of people new and in training between 2011 and 2013. Not so much 2014 (my last year there), but I hear there was a lot of trainees that showed up in 2015.
2012 and 2013 there was a controller that really struggled on radar that ended up not being able to certify. It was just ugly watching him work those arrival rushes. So far behind and not controlling anything, especially when using 10L. FAA sent him to southern California to a tower only. You go to Palm Springs at all?

 

[tcco94]

I'm not surprised by your timeline one bit haha. There was a lot of people new and in training between 2011 and 2013. Not so much 2014 (my last year there), but I hear there was a lot of trainees that showed up in 2015.
2012 and 2013 there was a controller that really struggled on radar that ended up not being able to certify. It was just ugly watching him work those arrival rushes. So far behind and not controlling anything, especially when using 10L. FAA sent him to southern California to a tower only. You go to Palm Springs at all?

I haven't been. I assume that's where he is now? Wonder if I could recognize his voice.

 

[MikeD]

I have seen helos enter to land on runways and then sidestep to their parking spot (which would make DVT traffic even more hectic) but is that a safety net from you guys if something were to happen during their takeoff/landing phase?

At DVT, you'll often see helos approach to Taxiway C, then move over to the transient line pads if landing there, mainly so their downwash doesn't sweep up debris on approach when they're pulling a good amount of pitch. Once established in ground effect, the downwash is reduced somewhat than when approaching to a landing.

Heavy helos with wheels will often use the runway/taxiway for landing, then ground taxi for the same reason; ground taxiing at flat pitch makes for next to no downwash at all, and thus no debris thrown up by the rotor system into other aircraft, etc.