ATA discontinues all operations
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Blip16
Well-Known Member
Re-Regulation would help a lot i think
Chet Kelly
New Member
Velocipede
New Member
Amen.
Blip16
Well-Known Member
Amtrak is a government corporation. the airlines have never been AFAIKSure, just look at how efficiently Amtrak is run.
Having been laid off/furloughed twice, in less than two years, by two airlines, not even as a pilot, and now seeing four airlines, including SkyWay shutting down, and another furloughing, with more than likely, others to follow, I am also getting out of this business, too!. I love to fly, and will seek out charter, corporate, or cargo type gigs, but whoever wants the airlines, can have them. I do not want to rely on my income, and supporting my family, on something so unstable. If all else fails, flying for fun is always a good choice.
I may just be bitter right now, at the airlines, because this has happened to me twice, and seeing the severance package, makes it worse, especially for the guys who have been here for 20-30+ years. It is laughable, and I really am losing any respect I once had for the airlines -> or, atleast for the management of these airlines!!
WestIndian425
Well-Known Member
Amtrak is not a government corporation. It's subsidized by the government.
I don't think re-regulation would work either cause that eliminates free enterprise, and makes the government responsible for charging fares and who goes where. Re-regulation would be going backwards.
Airdale
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure re-regulation would be the proper term. The industry can not be regulated like it used to be, but the government needs to intervene at some point. The Airlines have been in a ruthless dog fight since deregulation. It has opened up the market to severe low cost competition and lets face it, thats killing everyone.
When Skybus has $10 fares, then the rest of us are forced to cut even more corners to keep the ticket prices low. This results in safety being compromised (just look at the recent new storm over safety), pilots losing their jobs or giving up half of their pay etc. etc.
In simple business, when the cost to operate rises, the cost to the consumer rises. In aviation, this is not the case. Instead management will either take our pay or cut maintenance corners. Its a no win situation. This is where the government needs to step in.
Either they hedge the fuel for the airlines to keep ticket prices affordable for the entire country, or they start to regulate ticket prices. Whatever the case, the government needs to step in an get this industry turned around, otherwise we're going to have smoking holes in the ground and pissed off pilots walking picket lines at every airport.
When Skybus has $10 fares, then the rest of us are forced to cut even more corners to keep the ticket prices low. This results in safety being compromised (just look at the recent new storm over safety), pilots losing their jobs or giving up half of their pay etc. etc.
In simple business, when the cost to operate rises, the cost to the consumer rises. In aviation, this is not the case. Instead management will either take our pay or cut maintenance corners. Its a no win situation. This is where the government needs to step in.
Either they hedge the fuel for the airlines to keep ticket prices affordable for the entire country, or they start to regulate ticket prices. Whatever the case, the government needs to step in an get this industry turned around, otherwise we're going to have smoking holes in the ground and pissed off pilots walking picket lines at every airport.
mpenguin1
Well-Known Member
There is already toooo much government regulation in aviation as it is, the airlines either survive on their own or they cease operation.
If the airlines had solid business plans, they would have had their fuel hedged years ago, which some did
If the price of fuel goes up, then the airlines need to raise their ticket prices, if their passenger count decreases, then you adjust the business plan. May mean taking seats off of the airplanes to decrease weight as your passenger yield decreases.
Perhaps they should toughen the bankruptcy law protection, when an airline goes into Chapter 11, it weakens all of the other airlines......
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Yes. . .I agree with Mike on this one. But don't recommend raising fares. That's too taboo, and goes against what every University in this country is teaching our pilots who hold business, finance, or economics degrees.
We need to forget for a second that we work in a de-regulated industry.
We are regulated. . .TO THE TEETH.
Only thing that is not regulated is how much a company can charge, and where they can go. Otherwise, everything the 121 world works on is a regulation (hence regulated industry).
We need to forget for a second that we work in a de-regulated industry.
We are regulated. . .TO THE TEETH.
Only thing that is not regulated is how much a company can charge, and where they can go. Otherwise, everything the 121 world works on is a regulation (hence regulated industry).
The bankruptcy laws changed so that you've got to go IN to bankruptcy with an exit plan. The capital markets are absolutely rocked so even with a plan, the chances of getting debtor-in-possession financing is slim to none.
No exit plan, no DIP financing and it's a swift ride from chapter 11 to chapter 7.
No exit plan, no DIP financing and it's a swift ride from chapter 11 to chapter 7.
HeyEng
Well-Known Member
Just a couple thoughts....
1st...fuel prices seem to be driving a majority of the "downturn" so, riddle me this: fuel in Europe (I am assuming) is quite a bit more expensive than it is here, so why aren't we hearing of European carriers going belly up?
2nd...For those of you jumping ship, what was the straw that broke the camel's back? I do agree that there is now the "downturn" but it ain't that bad in comparison to say, 9/11 (yet, anyway). So are you getting out while the getting is good? I am just curious.
I was at the FBO today and they still have a "waiting list" if you will for students to start, but all the CFIs are running scared that it will dry up soon.
Oh, what fun!
anic:
1st...fuel prices seem to be driving a majority of the "downturn" so, riddle me this: fuel in Europe (I am assuming) is quite a bit more expensive than it is here, so why aren't we hearing of European carriers going belly up?
2nd...For those of you jumping ship, what was the straw that broke the camel's back? I do agree that there is now the "downturn" but it ain't that bad in comparison to say, 9/11 (yet, anyway). So are you getting out while the getting is good? I am just curious.
I was at the FBO today and they still have a "waiting list" if you will for students to start, but all the CFIs are running scared that it will dry up soon.
Oh, what fun!
anic:
"Debtor in Possession" financing.
Kind of like how Delta filed for BK, got financing to continue operations during the restructuring and pay for the lawyers, acquired exit financing for the transition out of chapter 11 and the lawyers, and then a buffer for the re-emergence.
That financing isn't available the way it was in 2005, plus you have a limited amount of time that you're able to stay IN bankruptcy. It's really a double whammy these days as you've seen.
Kind of like how Delta filed for BK, got financing to continue operations during the restructuring and pay for the lawyers, acquired exit financing for the transition out of chapter 11 and the lawyers, and then a buffer for the re-emergence.
That financing isn't available the way it was in 2005, plus you have a limited amount of time that you're able to stay IN bankruptcy. It's really a double whammy these days as you've seen.
mpenguin1
Well-Known Member
OH MY GAWD FOLKS the world is coming to an end, Surreal & Pengy agreed on something
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
And if that's the case these days, and I agree with Doug that it is, then companies should start taking drastic steps to make sure they stay out of BK. I.E. Furlough, and consolidate to profitability BEFORE you hit BK because you don't know if you're going to pop out, and a smaller company that makes less money is still better than liquidating the company.
Actually, here's the "Gordian Knot".
If you think you NEED to go into bankruptcy, you need to secure financing and make sure you can be in and out before your (much reduced) time limit is up. You can't "Pull A United", linger in chapter 11 protection and exit at your leisure when it's convenient. The feds want you in and out like a New Jersey escort.
Personally, call me a conspiracy theorist, but DC knew this financial crisis was coming down for years and got all of the corporate and personal bankruptcy laws changes while we were still stupefied with joy during the housing bubble.
You know, "Nevermind what they're doing in DC, my doublewide's worth $400G's! Im'o flip it! I'm a house flipper! Hoo hoo!"
Long term, I think we'll all be ok. But in the interim it's going to blow.
If you think you NEED to go into bankruptcy, you need to secure financing and make sure you can be in and out before your (much reduced) time limit is up. You can't "Pull A United", linger in chapter 11 protection and exit at your leisure when it's convenient. The feds want you in and out like a New Jersey escort.
Personally, call me a conspiracy theorist, but DC knew this financial crisis was coming down for years and got all of the corporate and personal bankruptcy laws changes while we were still stupefied with joy during the housing bubble.
You know, "Nevermind what they're doing in DC, my doublewide's worth $400G's! Im'o flip it! I'm a house flipper! Hoo hoo!"
Long term, I think we'll all be ok. But in the interim it's going to blow.
HeyEng
Well-Known Member
Speaking of the housing market...Doug, is it as bad in Snotsdale as is reported by the media? They do the same here in San Antonio, but it is really in decent shape considering. Of course, you have to have more than a pulse now to get a mortgage, but that is a *good* change IMHO.