Are the regionals angling for a repeal of the ATP rule?

Ungh. Good grief. The "Oh we're too good for that airplane, thus don't want them" is the most hackneyed, over-wrought, most urban-legendy things that's out there.

Sure, some guys may have thought that, but there was no big monolithic "Ewww, 50-seaters, go away!"

I was at a regional and also involved on the MEC at my carrier at the time and I don't think I could name anyone who I associated with on the national level or even regular joes at other carriers that didn't think the proliferation of regional jets at the commuter level was anything but a death knell for all narrowbody flying. I'm sure there were some, but a handful doesn't make a movement.

I think we need to let go of that preconception and try to figure out how to fix the situation… Today.

Otherwise, it's like saying "Sure Congress has low voter approval ratings, but holy cow, when those Commie Reds were indoctrinating good god-fearing Americans during the McCarthy era…"
 
Zapphod Beblebrox said:
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I agree with everything in this post except for"They were always a temporary solution.....". At a recent union meeting I spoke with a now retired former US Airways ALPA MEC Chairman. He was on the Allegheny Seniority List when the first Beach 99 started service between Clarksburg WV, and Pittsburgh.

Allegheny Commuter was the model for the industry and it took off with Allegheny and then later with all the majors. That was 1967 and I was in Jr. High School. That was 47 years ago. In 2017, the Fee for departure, Regional Airline or Code Share partner concept, will be 50 years old. It is here to stay.

Surprisingly we all concentrate on the Pilot Crew Costs. However there is far more savings in other job classes. Ticketing, Ground Service, Maintenance, and other support functions become part time jobs with no union and no retirement. The Pilots are simply the most visible component of the labor savings.

I think, like the majors, fuel is the greatest cost component of regional airlines. I don't think there are any significant savings that can be had from regional airline labor. Labor cost was the main reason for creating the regional carrier in the first place.

The first CRJ-100 flew in 1996. Spot oil prices were in the low $20 per barrel range. We now have oil above $100.00. Average avgas prices are showing $6.37 in the North East US. I can remember renting a new 172 for about $24/ hr. At 6.5 gallons per hour average that's $41.40 now just for the gas. You can't rent an airplane for under $100 dollars anywhere I am aware of.

There is a perfect storm coming and the cost of getting the training and experience is getting higher and higher and the regional business model is broken so it is unlikely that the regional industry will increase pay and benefits significantly.

US Airways just replaced their director of training on the US Side and placed him in charge of pilot recruitment and Envoy. It is reported that the United MEC is having open houses for ALPA Fee for departure pilots.

What to do to help fix the problem? [My suggestions only]

1. Majors need a real move up or flow up programs for their partners.
2. The industry should embrace the large Turboprop. Customers don't like them as much as jets but these are part 25 aircraft that have professional training just like the RJ's.
(I don't know the numbers but the Q-400 is supposed to be the least expensive 50+seat aircraft to operate in commercial service.
3. Pilots who fly large Turboprops in a move up program should be given the exact same consideration as a pilot who flies an RJ.
4. The FAA should place the regional certificates on the major's insurance certificate. If it wears a major's colors it must operate like a major in all aspects and the major partner is responsible to see that this is so. If there is an accident like the Buffalo crash the major should be as responsible as the code share partner. A real effort to "One level of Safety."

There must be a reasonable expectation that a pilot that enters this industry should be able to have a career. With all the retirements coming up and the shortage the major's will have to invest a little to make it work. This type of thing is not unheard of in other industries.

Here endith the ranting.
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tl;dr: when the Old Man saw the first Western Express (* operated by SkyWest Airlines) Metroliner taxi by, complete with swizzle-stick paint, he went "Oh dear" - but no-one else cared about "that little turboprop."

Fast forward to now, and the Airline that Ralph and Jerry Built has 753 aircraft. Lots of them are jets. And even more of them go to places that Western Delta themselves used to go.

In the case of Inc., I don't think they'll ever be gone - it's just a question of what they'll look like in 10 and 20 years. I think that it'll be a radically different company from now, just as the SkyWest of today is not the SkyWest of yesteryear, in terms of its fleet, its business model, and so on. Whether everyone else adapts is another matter, and it's awfully crowded here in the kiddie pool too.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Ummm, you don't need ALPA to do it. I'm sure @Autothrust Blue and I could have something better up in a weekend. What would the message be though?

EDIT: It is Wordpress with the default twentyfourteen theme. You could probably pay some college kid a case of beer to do better...
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I need to learn Ansible. (my projects are getting to "that" point—gosh, sometimes I hate being serious.)
 
jtrain609 said:
The writing was on the wall with all those folks that upgraded in 18 months and moved to CAL years ago? I agree.
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You guys didn't lose those planes in 2004-2005...it was much later.

The announcement was in early fall of 2006 IIRC and looks like your most junior CA is a Jan 2007 hire. So OK, you had 4 more months of movement after the announcement, but practically everyone hired on afterward is an F/O still (or has since left).
 
Autothrust Blue said:
In the case of the "other" airline, the writing is on the wall—as you no doubt deduced on your own.
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It will be as long as this merger process continues to be drawn out. Makes no sense for SkyWest to buy another airline only to kill it in the end. The cash that came with XJT is pretty much spent and the assets are worthless. It is a complete loss at this time for SkyWest unless they intend to keep the airline around in some form.
 
surreal1221 said:
DotNetNuke is an absolutely HORRENDOUS platform.
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Yeah... Every ALPA IT conference I went to I hoped that they would move out of the stone ages... but it looks like it's not to be. As I start working on my 4th total website redesign (this time for a different airline finally), I am still stuck with the horrible design constraints of DNN.
 
BobDDuck said:
Yeah... Every ALPA IT conference I went to I hoped that they would move out of the stone ages... but it looks like it's not to be. As I start working on my 4th total website redesign (this time for a different airline finally), I am still stuck with the horrible design constraints of DNN.
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In regards to IT suggestions:

Uh...yuh...good idea...we will look into it.

Except, they (ALPA National) never look into.

I am still waiting for the first MEC to go to squarespace, lol.
 
BobDDuck said:
Yeah... Every ALPA IT conference I went to I hoped that they would move out of the stone ages... but it looks like it's not to be. As I start working on my 4th total website redesign (this time for a different airline finally), I am still stuck with the horrible design constraints of DNN.
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WHY.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
WHY.
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I think because DNN is (as far as I know) the only CMS that interfaces (easily) with Microsoft's Active Directory structure. I've actually never been a fan of AD, but it was the path ALPA chose a while back and as such, DNN makes sense, although not from a design point of view.
 
I would say if you're flying passengers for a 121 airline minimum of 40K to start and 50K from then on until you advance, a captain should be in the 65-70K range as a new upgrade but bumped quickly to 80K. If you can't afford to pay that, then you should go out of business. Because you can...pass the costs along to the consumer.
 
Bumblebee said:
I would say if you're flying passengers for a 121 airline minimum of 40K to start and 50K from then on until you advance, a captain should be in the 65-70K range as a new upgrade but bumped quickly to 80K. If you can't afford to pay that, then you should go out of business. Because you can...pass the costs along to the consumer.
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That's what I was thinking when I saw the headline of an article the other day that TSA fees were going to increase, thus making tickets more expensive. I don't think a first officer fee of $1 per passenger per hour would bankrupt anybody.
 
BobDDuck said:
I think because DNN is (as far as I know) the only CMS that interfaces (easily) with Microsoft's Active Directory structure. I've actually never been a fan of AD, but it was the path ALPA chose a while back and as such, DNN makes sense, although not from a design point of view.
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There are a million ways to plug AD into just about anything, it is just LDAP & Kerberos fundamentally. Every SSO product on the market does this.

You can easily make most CMS packages do this.
 
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