Are pilots blue collar or white collar?

Trump voting union members. Good luck figuring out the shirt collar.

One of the things that was seriously overlooked in the 2016 election is how union voters are no longer loyal democrats. Union leadership may be solid blue but their membership is very purple.

Your average steel mill worker is a fairly conservative guy and not on board with most of the liberal agenda. I know a LOT of union guys in the oil and gas industry and none of them are voting for democrats.
 
Both. At least in my sector. After you're done flying there many chores to do. Servicing the lav, cleaning goldfish crumbs out of the carpet, cleaning up rich people's empties, cleaning finger prints off of the windows, (why dammit?) stock the catering, etc. Then you have the paperwork...
Sounds distinctly blue collar to me.
 
Your posting credibility is crumbling before our very eyes. I did not intend to take you down but this is the path you have chosen. Why are you doing this to yourself?

You’re kinda funny. Probably need to spend your time on something else, though.

And as for the thread topic…solidly blue collar. Pay scale has nothing to do with it. Where are Seggy and SlumTodd? Trade unionists would have the best perspective.


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You’re kinda funny. Probably need to spend your time on something else, though.

And as for the thread topic…solidly blue collar. Pay scale has nothing to do with it. Where are Seggy and SlumTodd? Trade unionists would have the best perspective.


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I’ve always argued that anybody who bargains collectively, regardless of profession or attire, is blue collar. It’s basically a technical trade. Sure, a lot more responsibility than others, but white/blue collar isn’t about responsibility level, it’s about nature of the job.
 
if I wouldn’t have gotten sick, I’d have stayed at my corporate gig forever…

but I can see the 121 appeal

I mean, 91 runs the gamut, but, I run a large cabin in the North East doing about 75-100 hours a year. 121 was fun, but I have no desire to climb another seniority list, commute, or deal with the general flying public right now lol.


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I mean, 91 runs the gamut, but, I run a large cabin in the North East doing about 75-100 hours a year. 121 was fun, but I have no desire to climb another seniority list, commute, or deal with the general flying public right now lol.


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Also, for me, the type of flying was important to me. I want to get satisfaction in my career from both the flying and the other stuff. Going DFW to DCA 80 times a year sounds like punishment to me, lol.

that said, the predictability and the Union protection always was something I wished I had.
 
Pilots are professionals. We follow a code of ethics, we are not ultimately in it for the money (as their are much easier ways to earn a buck involving much less effort and time away from home) or an itch for glory. (we are not charging off into the unknown) We study hard, constantly improve ourselves, and have a strong work ethic.

In the legal sense, we have a power akin to monarchs or dictators. When away from the gate our authority is absolute. We are not accountable (in the moment) to those under us in the chain of command or to our charges. (We are ultimately accountable for our actions, but are given great authority and broad powers while underway.) Because of this, we have the sense that because we drive the ship that we are management.

We are not. We may be Captains, but we are not the Admiralty. We do not drive the fleet or the overall mission.

Economically, we are "blue collar" labor.

Economically, we are a tire. We have a number and an expiration date.

Philosophically, all pilots need to learn and understand this. Our standards are high but our skills are not unique. We are the processor in the motherboard, but we aren't the engineers of the whole machine. We are given a mission and the tools to carry it out.

We ride a very fine line. We are very much the at top of the food chain of organized labor. But it is still labor. Unlike the other professions; physician, lawyer, engineer... we cannot break off and hang out our own shingle. The vessel we command is just too expensive to buy and maintain. The regulations to own and operate one are just too onerous. At the same time it is hard to get a union pipe-fitter or carpenter on board with understanding why our rates and work rules (bargained for collectively) should be (to their perspective... not ours) so high. Our "cost" compared to the operating cost of the vehicle we command is not the most significant, but the bean counters will squeeze every penny till Lincoln screams. And that includes eroding every dollar of pay and efficiency on the backs of labor.

I understand why as a pilot, as a Captain, you don't want to be thrown into the pile of the "unwashed masses of labor." Management has done a fantastic job over the last 30-40 years trying to convince you that you are not labor. Why? Because it costs them less to run a PR campaign than to pay you an industry standard wage and set of work rules commiserate with your education, experience, and skill set.

We sit at the top of the mountain of organized labor. We should be leading the movement (people look up to us) instead of siding with those who would cut us off at the knees. At the same time we should be collectively recapturing the rates and work rules that management so craftily stole from the pilots and put into their own pocket over the last 20 plus years.

So, I say... embrace it. You are a professional. Be a professional. You are a ship's Captain. Be a Captain. You are also labor. You are a tire. Understand how management has used the legal system over the last 40 years to minimize your bargaining power. Fight against the drive to get rid of collective bargaining. Support your franchise of your Union in whatever way you can.

You are a Blue Collar Unionized Professional. (If you want to be white collar, change your ethos so that you are motivated only by economic factors, go start a business and Gordon Gekko yourself to your hearts content. Me, I'll be over here helping my fellow pilots and staying current.)

Rant over.
 
Awesome post.


We follow a code of ethics, we are not ultimately in it for the money (as their are much easier ways to earn a buck involving much less effort and time away from home) or an itch for glory.

as for code of ethics, just how many pilots do you know that have wild Thailand stories
In the legal sense, we have a power akin to monarchs or dictators. When away from the gate our authority is absolute

I tried to invoke prima nocta but my passengers typically scoffed at the idea.
 
Pilots are professionals. We follow a code of ethics, we are not ultimately in it for the money (as their are much easier ways to earn a buck involving much less effort and time away from home) or an itch for glory. (we are not charging off into the unknown) We study hard, constantly improve ourselves, and have a strong work ethic.

In the legal sense, we have a power akin to monarchs or dictators. When away from the gate our authority is absolute. We are not accountable (in the moment) to those under us in the chain of command or to our charges. (We are ultimately accountable for our actions, but are given great authority and broad powers while underway.) Because of this, we have the sense that because we drive the ship that we are management.

We are not. We may be Captains, but we are not the Admiralty. We do not drive the fleet or the overall mission.

Economically, we are "blue collar" labor.

Economically, we are a tire. We have a number and an expiration date.

Philosophically, all pilots need to learn and understand this. Our standards are high but our skills are not unique. We are the processor in the motherboard, but we aren't the engineers of the whole machine. We are given a mission and the tools to carry it out.

We ride a very fine line. We are very much the at top of the food chain of organized labor. But it is still labor. Unlike the other professions; physician, lawyer, engineer... we cannot break off and hang out our own shingle. The vessel we command is just too expensive to buy and maintain. The regulations to own and operate one are just too onerous. At the same time it is hard to get a union pipe-fitter or carpenter on board with understanding why our rates and work rules (bargained for collectively) should be (to their perspective... not ours) so high. Our "cost" compared to the operating cost of the vehicle we command is not the most significant, but the bean counters will squeeze every penny till Lincoln screams. And that includes eroding every dollar of pay and efficiency on the backs of labor.

I understand why as a pilot, as a Captain, you don't want to be thrown into the pile of the "unwashed masses of labor." Management has done a fantastic job over the last 30-40 years trying to convince you that you are not labor. Why? Because it costs them less to run a PR campaign than to pay you an industry standard wage and set of work rules commiserate with your education, experience, and skill set.

We sit at the top of the mountain of organized labor. We should be leading the movement (people look up to us) instead of siding with those who would cut us off at the knees. At the same time we should be collectively recapturing the rates and work rules that management so craftily stole from the pilots and put into their own pocket over the last 20 plus years.

So, I say... embrace it. You are a professional. Be a professional. You are a ship's Captain. Be a Captain. You are also labor. You are a tire. Understand how management has used the legal system over the last 40 years to minimize your bargaining power. Fight against the drive to get rid of collective bargaining. Support your franchise of your Union in whatever way you can.

You are a Blue Collar Unionized Professional. (If you want to be white collar, change your ethos so that you are motivated only by economic factors, go start a business and Gordon Gekko yourself to your hearts content. Me, I'll be over here helping my fellow pilots and staying current.)

Rant over.
DEB05E16-7D9C-40D1-BC75-EFC143014EB0.gif
 
Pilots are professionals. We follow a code of ethics, we are not ultimately in it for the money (as their are much easier ways to earn a buck involving much less effort and time away from home) or an itch for glory. (we are not charging off into the unknown) We study hard, constantly improve ourselves, and have a strong work ethic.

In the legal sense, we have a power akin to monarchs or dictators. When away from the gate our authority is absolute. We are not accountable (in the moment) to those under us in the chain of command or to our charges. (We are ultimately accountable for our actions, but are given great authority and broad powers while underway.) Because of this, we have the sense that because we drive the ship that we are management.

We are not. We may be Captains, but we are not the Admiralty. We do not drive the fleet or the overall mission.

Economically, we are "blue collar" labor.

Economically, we are a tire. We have a number and an expiration date.

Philosophically, all pilots need to learn and understand this. Our standards are high but our skills are not unique. We are the processor in the motherboard, but we aren't the engineers of the whole machine. We are given a mission and the tools to carry it out.

We ride a very fine line. We are very much the at top of the food chain of organized labor. But it is still labor. Unlike the other professions; physician, lawyer, engineer... we cannot break off and hang out our own shingle. The vessel we command is just too expensive to buy and maintain. The regulations to own and operate one are just too onerous. At the same time it is hard to get a union pipe-fitter or carpenter on board with understanding why our rates and work rules (bargained for collectively) should be (to their perspective... not ours) so high. Our "cost" compared to the operating cost of the vehicle we command is not the most significant, but the bean counters will squeeze every penny till Lincoln screams. And that includes eroding every dollar of pay and efficiency on the backs of labor.

I understand why as a pilot, as a Captain, you don't want to be thrown into the pile of the "unwashed masses of labor." Management has done a fantastic job over the last 30-40 years trying to convince you that you are not labor. Why? Because it costs them less to run a PR campaign than to pay you an industry standard wage and set of work rules commiserate with your education, experience, and skill set.

We sit at the top of the mountain of organized labor. We should be leading the movement (people look up to us) instead of siding with those who would cut us off at the knees. At the same time we should be collectively recapturing the rates and work rules that management so craftily stole from the pilots and put into their own pocket over the last 20 plus years.

So, I say... embrace it. You are a professional. Be a professional. You are a ship's Captain. Be a Captain. You are also labor. You are a tire. Understand how management has used the legal system over the last 40 years to minimize your bargaining power. Fight against the drive to get rid of collective bargaining. Support your franchise of your Union in whatever way you can.

You are a Blue Collar Unionized Professional. (If you want to be white collar, change your ethos so that you are motivated only by economic factors, go start a business and Gordon Gekko yourself to your hearts content. Me, I'll be over here helping my fellow pilots and staying current.)

Rant over.
A big problem are the guys who are so loyal to the profession and their company, that it blinds them from realizing we're just a number. I really enjoy flying, but I know quite well how much management hates us. It's mutual and is expected when they're working with organized labor like pilots.

Makes me feel like a loser. And I know there’s no one who looks up to me
 
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Pilots are professionals. We follow a code of ethics, we are not ultimately in it for the money (as their are much easier ways to earn a buck involving much less effort and time away from home) or an itch for glory. (we are not charging off into the unknown) We study hard, constantly improve ourselves, and have a strong work ethic.

In the legal sense, we have a power akin to monarchs or dictators. When away from the gate our authority is absolute. We are not accountable (in the moment) to those under us in the chain of command or to our charges. (We are ultimately accountable for our actions, but are given great authority and broad powers while underway.) Because of this, we have the sense that because we drive the ship that we are management.

We are not. We may be Captains, but we are not the Admiralty. We do not drive the fleet or the overall mission.

Economically, we are "blue collar" labor.

Economically, we are a tire. We have a number and an expiration date.

Philosophically, all pilots need to learn and understand this. Our standards are high but our skills are not unique. We are the processor in the motherboard, but we aren't the engineers of the whole machine. We are given a mission and the tools to carry it out.

We ride a very fine line. We are very much the at top of the food chain of organized labor. But it is still labor. Unlike the other professions; physician, lawyer, engineer... we cannot break off and hang out our own shingle. The vessel we command is just too expensive to buy and maintain. The regulations to own and operate one are just too onerous. At the same time it is hard to get a union pipe-fitter or carpenter on board with understanding why our rates and work rules (bargained for collectively) should be (to their perspective... not ours) so high. Our "cost" compared to the operating cost of the vehicle we command is not the most significant, but the bean counters will squeeze every penny till Lincoln screams. And that includes eroding every dollar of pay and efficiency on the backs of labor.

I understand why as a pilot, as a Captain, you don't want to be thrown into the pile of the "unwashed masses of labor." Management has done a fantastic job over the last 30-40 years trying to convince you that you are not labor. Why? Because it costs them less to run a PR campaign than to pay you an industry standard wage and set of work rules commiserate with your education, experience, and skill set.

We sit at the top of the mountain of organized labor. We should be leading the movement (people look up to us) instead of siding with those who would cut us off at the knees. At the same time we should be collectively recapturing the rates and work rules that management so craftily stole from the pilots and put into their own pocket over the last 20 plus years.

So, I say... embrace it. You are a professional. Be a professional. You are a ship's Captain. Be a Captain. You are also labor. You are a tire. Understand how management has used the legal system over the last 40 years to minimize your bargaining power. Fight against the drive to get rid of collective bargaining. Support your franchise of your Union in whatever way you can.

You are a Blue Collar Unionized Professional. (If you want to be white collar, change your ethos so that you are motivated only by economic factors, go start a business and Gordon Gekko yourself to your hearts content. Me, I'll be over here helping my fellow pilots and staying current.)

Rant over.

Put that on a t-shirt, I’d buy it. Twice.
 
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