Applying to the "career destination" airlines

Beefy McGee said:
Didn't know that counted as a job fair? Thought it was only an air show/fly-in event where manufacturers sell things. Did not know it was a recruiting event.
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What about the High School GPA? Might understand if under 10 years ago, but for some of us it might be a time before the HR person asking was born.
 
Curious if they could do away with the 1x scoring in 12 months. I understand it's supply and demand, but man it sucks sitting on a bunch of good updates and know they won't even look at my app until next year.
 
Ajax said:
Why must I pay a 3rd party to send applications out? Can't I just send them to you(royal you, not you Derg) directly? I hate airline apps
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There's some awesome suggestions in this thread, but I just wanted to reiterate this one. I HATE AIRLINEAPPS. It's one thing to go 3rd party, but it's another to charge $60/yr just to keep an application on file. Yes, $60/yr is absolutely nothing if you get a call from a major, but where does it end? Some people I know have had an account on airlineapps for years and years with no phone call. Yes, you can also go the free route, but it deletes your app after a year, and you'd have to redo the entire application process. I just find it a bit dirty that it costs us money to apply to a job.
 
TrustMeI'maPilot said:
Curious if they could do away with the 1x scoring in 12 months. I understand it's supply and demand, but man it sucks sitting on a bunch of good updates and know they won't even look at my app until next year.
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I'll just be here collecting another type rating and moving over to the left seat, for instance.

(Which, not sure if that actually matters. I would like some real, concrete feedback on why I haven't gotten a call. Otherwise, it's just random, misdirected energy.)
 
Derg said:
That's not a requirement at my shop.
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While not a requirement I was told by two individuals at your company that my five year program (I took time off to enlist in the National Guard), would hurt me, even though that was 30 years ago. Not sure how much.
 
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Derg said:
What are your challenges and frustrations?

I need some answers relatively swiftly for a project I'm helping someone with and it will be "run up" the food chain fairly quickly.
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I'm frustrated that the ball is being hidden, and seemingly moved on a regular basis.

What's that mean? Here, let me give you an example.

In law school, the professors did everything they could to make sure that the testing standards were clear and concise. They weren't going to make up elements for a claim, and they weren't going to require you to explain the state action doctrine on a torts exam. You know that if you were discussing negligence, you'd better include the elements of duty, breach, causation and harm. What was expected of you was clear, and you were tested on your ability to do what was asked of you, not to read minds.

I feel like we're reading minds out here.

I've been told, in no specific order, over the last few years:

  • You don't have any PIC time? Get some PIC time, you need PIC time.
  • PIC time doesn't matter, "loyalty" to your regional airline matters.
  • Do something constructive during furlough, get an advanced degree.
  • Advanced degrees don't matter, and are of no help. Quite literally, I've been asked what my undergraduate GPA was, and told my law school GPA is meaningless. Do you know how hard it is to not answer that with, "My GPA from undergraduate was high enough to get me accepted into, and graduate from, law school."
  • Do volunteer work! It'll help with the resume.
  • Given long stares when explaining ALPA volunteer work.
  • Go to a career fair! Get face time!
  • Gets no face time after waiting in line for 8 hours to talk with an airline at a career fair.
  • Hours don't matter, the total applicant matters.
  • Go to career fair and get told to get some more flight time.
  • Get told to become a chief pilot, check airman and DO.
Obviously, all these points are contradictory, and that's why I'm saying this; there's no clear answer of what a candidate looks like who will get a call.

So what do I want to see? Ten sterilized applications of successful applicants, pulled from various sectors of the industry, who were both called for, and successfully interviewed for a job at SJI. Right now it's like we're playing a game of HORSE without anybody showing you what the shot is, and then we're all wondering why we keep losing.
 
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Totally agree, @jtrain609 the only thing that seems to be a clear advantage for applicants is military experience. I have even heard pilots say that they wouldn't get hired by a mainline because they had too much regional PIC time. Again, I don't know what is truth, and what is rumor. But, evidently, where people aren't getting a chance lies in the algorithm of the online application, and what disqualifies an applicant. Maybe it shouldn't be about what people need, but rather, what are the gatekeepers that will ensure that no one is ever going to know you exist because your application is thrown out before it even reaches a recruiter.
 
Also, I've got to add something else.

We're told that our applications have to be perfect.

Perfect? What's perfect? As it turns out, that's a completely arbitrary set of guidelines that someone has made up and hidden. You have to put something in EVERY SINGLE BOX, even if it's N/A? That's not perfect, that's a rule. If the rules aren't explained, nobody will know how to play the game. If you're on the inside reading these applications with the set of rules in front of you, and if everyone in your office knows the rules, you'll wonder why nobody is playing by the rules. But if the rules aren't published, then everyone will continue to make mistakes.

There's no PTS for applications. You'd never go into a checkride without knowing the standards, but that's what we're doing here.
 
jtrain609 said:
Also, I've got to add something else.

We're told that our applications have to be perfect.

Perfect? What's perfect? As it turns out, that's a completely arbitrary set of guidelines that someone has made up and hidden. You have to put something in EVERY SINGLE BOX, even if it's N/A? That's not perfect, that's a rule. If the rules aren't explained, nobody will know how to play the game. If you're on the inside reading these applications with the set of rules in front of you, and if everyone in your office knows the rules, you'll wonder why nobody is playing by the rules. But if the rules aren't published, then everyone will continue to make mistakes.

There's no PTS for applications. You'd never go into a checkride without knowing the standards, but that's what we're doing here.
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AMEN! It's this kind of environment that allow predatory people to scam those of us who scrambling for any insight we can get. Tell people you have some inside knowledge or esoteric lore, and bam, you can charge people $500 bucks to tell them your app needs to be 40 pages.
 
poser765 said:
AMEN! It's this kind of environment that allow predatory people to scam those of us who scrambling for any insight we can get. Tell people you have some inside knowledge or esoteric lore, and bam, you can charge people $500 bucks to tell them your app needs to be 40 pages.
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Which begs the question. Is that ever worth the money?
 
Very well said @jtrain609!

On the last bullet point, there's another member here that was told "I know it's out of your control, but try to become a check airman." If you KNOW it's out of one's control, then why say that?! And management isn't stupid, they see guys becoming a check airman and then leaving. Now they're looking for lifers only to be check airman.
 
B767 said:
Very well said @jtrain609!

On the last bullet point, there's another member here that was told "I know it's out of your control, but try to become a check airman." If you KNOW it's out of one's control, then why say that?! And management isn't stupid, they see guys becoming a check airman and then leaving. Now they're looking for lifers only to be check airman.
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I've heard the same story from WAY more than one job fair attendee.
 
TrustMeI'maPilot said:
Curious if they could do away with the 1x scoring in 12 months. I understand it's supply and demand, but man it sucks sitting on a bunch of good updates and know they won't even look at my app until next year.
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It's really a better idea to drop the concept of 'scoring' altogether because it doesn't exist.

My friend says that when your internal recommender writes the email to pilot selection, that will trigger an application review but it only works once per year.
If you attend a career fair and do really well, that will trigger an application review
Having a letter of recommendation written by an employee may trigger an application review.

and there are a number of other methods than can trigger an application review, but the concept of "scoring" is a construct of internet gossip or consulting firms that really don't understand what's going on.
 
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