APA and AAG Senior Management Meeting Synopsis

You should tell that to one of the current Eagle pilots flowing that has dedicated 16-20 years of his life to AMR, now AAG. You know.. the guys that lost their CA seats and stagnated their careers for YEARS due to hundreds of AA pilots that flowed back to Eagle and occupied our seats (as part of the Letter 3 deal). I spent several years flying with AA flow-backs here as well which stagnated my movement almost a decade ago. Flow was a 2 way street for Eagle/AA. Our pilots could go up, they could come back if they furloughed, and they did. Funny how a bunch of people over there forget "that" part of the deal, which gave a home to AA guys at our highest CA pay rates to their furloughed pilots when they needed it, yet now the mainline guys have a problem with flow since their buddies can't get hired. Most guys get it, it's typically Usair people nowadays complaining about it for the most part since they have no idea about how any of the convoluted "letter 3" situation came to be.

Then, back in 2011 ALPA decided to give up the rights of us flying our own American Eagle aircraft in a "grievance settlement" with AMR to get a flow deal for more of the pilots here at Eagle that weren't part of the 824 arbitrated agreement for harmed flow pilots. This covered all pilots on property up to 10/2011. Supposedly it was just going to provide our more junior pilots with enhanced job protections and no harm would come from it. It was just a legality/paperwork thing the company needed if we were divested they claimed.. Yeah.., since that screw job deal was made via ALPA/management our fleet has been decimated and handed out to multiple other carriers due to that messed up back-room agreement that allowed our Eagle flying/aircraft to transfer without us or our contract attached with it anymore. The pilots at Eagle earned their flow rights to AA through taking in AA flow-backs into our CA seats, YEARS of stagnation and displacements, and now, loss of our aircraft to others due to that grievance settlement/flow deal with AMR. These guys here have earned this flow-through a lot more so than some person hired off the street who has invested nothing into AA.

Maybe not the new hires that just walked into this newest post bankruptcy "eNvoy" flow deal without paying for it, but the rest of us have paid and sacrificed for many years for this court ordered flow & the current contractual flow rights we have paid dearly for. Some more than others.

As far as PDT and PSA, I have no idea what kind of agreement they had or didn't have with USair before the merger. One of those guys would have to comment on that..
(the discussion here was really about New PdT/PSA flows) however,
I would absolutely tell them. And im sorry, but the 2000s didn't go as anyone planned, I'm sorry that it took longer than they anticipated.
I and others are aware of the convoluted history and flow through agreements. But if you weren't at mainline, then you weren't at mainline. The fact that it takes so long to rehash the history tells you all that you need to know about how screwed up flow through offers are.
 
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(the discussion here was really about New PdT/PSA flows) however,
I would absolutely tell them. And im sorry, but the 2000s didn't go as anyone planned, I'm sorry that it took longer than they anticipated.
I and others are aware of the convoluted history and flow through agreements. But if you weren't at mainline, then you weren't at mainline. The fact that it takes so long to rehash the history tells you all that you need to know about how screwed up flow through offers are.

and they would gladly tell you where you can go. No they weren't at mainline, because mainline pilots were back here occupying their Eagle CA seats instead at the time. Those flow spots were earned.
 
and they would gladly tell you where you can go. No they weren't at mainline, because mainline pilots were back here occupying their Eagle CA seats instead at the time. Those flow spots were earned.
Pretty sure he's talking about current eagle people. All the people you referred to already flowed.

I think flows are bad ideas. Just a carrot to dangle. Soon they will either have to withhold flows or park more planes. Their choice.
 
As far as PDT and PSA, I have no idea what kind of agreement they had or didn't have with USair before the merger. One of those guys would have to comment on that..

Prior to the 2nd bankruptcy US Airways had Jets for Jobs, J4J and Mid Atlantic. The agreements regarding these types of "flow arrangements" went away in the second bankruptcy. ALPA and then USAPA had nothing to bargain with. There was not going to be any more scope relief given and that was always the bargaining chip for a flow agreement.

Parker just did what he wanted as he is doing now. I am not an expert but my belief is the actual Eagle flow language that was negotiated way back when was replaced with new language in the AA reorganization.
 
All I know is the only people who consistently have been less than fun to fly with have been PSA flows. They seem to be the only ones with any sort of attitude issue. The Piedmont guys all just seem happy to be at mainline.
 
Yeah, I see that KDA plan is really coming together!

It is for Parker. Labor harmony means zero to him. What KDA means to him:
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All I know is the only people who consistently have been less than fun to fly with have been PSA flows. They seem to be the only ones with any sort of attitude issue. The Piedmont guys all just seem happy to be at mainline.

I've flown with several PSA flows and I agree with your assessment. Only flown with a couple that were a pleasure to work with.
 
All I know is the only people who consistently have been less than fun to fly with have been PSA flows. They seem to be the only ones with any sort of attitude issue. The Piedmont guys all just seem happy to be at mainline.
Are we still doing the probation year and surveys to captains?
 
I've flown with several PSA flows and I agree with your assessment. Only flown with a couple that were a pleasure to work with.
That's sad to hear... Although having known several of our most senior guys that have flowed up in the past year, I think 15+ years at a regional can be hard on anyone. Not making excuses for them, just saying. The biggest difference I see between guys who have been in this industry 10+ years and those who have been in for 5 or less is attitude.
 
That's sad to hear... Although having known several of our most senior guys that have flowed up in the past year, I think 15+ years at a regional can be hard on anyone. Not making excuses for them, just saying. The biggest difference I see between guys who have been in this industry 10+ years and those who have been in for 5 or less is attitude.

The Piedmont guys had 25-30 years at the regionals and they're all cool for the most part.
 
That's sad to hear... Although having known several of our most senior guys that have flowed up in the past year, I think 15+ years at a regional can be hard on anyone. Not making excuses for them, just saying. The biggest difference I see between guys who have been in this industry 10+ years and those who have been in for 5 or less is attitude.

Part of the problem is the equipment they are assigned during indoc.

The LUS side is somewhat stagnated compared to even a year ago, even on the 190. People aren't holding Regular Reserve or a line as soon as the historical trend indicates. Combine that with people commuting for the first time in years and the type of flying the 190 does the majority of the time (5 leg Shuttle days), it's easy to see why someone is disillusioned and that disillusionment comes across as a poor attitude.
 
The Piedmont guys had 25-30 years at the regionals and they're all cool for the most part.
That I won't disagree with. Piedmont pilots are some of the coolest in the business. I've known several, grew up across the street from some back when PDT had the JAX base, and flown with a couple. Good guys all around.
 
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