AOPA will never get another dime from me

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Gonzo said:
We do pay fees. Have you ever look at how much of the ticket price is fees. Landing fees, fuel fees, TSA fees, etc.
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We pay the same fuel fee's as you guys do. Its a fuel tax. So you want to collect landing fee's on us. Alright, go ahead and collect that five dollar landing fee based upon weight, at 3AM. The cost of having somebody there to collect the money is going to be higher than the landing fee's themselves.

I think that 90% of GA pilots are smart enough to realize that there is no reason to go into one of the ultra-busy class Bravo airports. And, if you want to hit us with fee's there, I'm cool with that. But, you want to collect fee's for us to land at a sleepy Class Bravo (MCI, STL and the like), I don't think that's fair. Class Charlie and Delta, heck no on fee's. Radar service and IFR flight, no way. I went in a class Bravo last night (MCI) just to do a full stop/taxi back, to show a student pilot what it's like to operate in a busier environment. Did I hurt anything, absolutly not. Approach told me they would have to vector me for a while to get a hole to get me in, but they had no problem with it. Would have I done that in ATL, ORD, NYC, probably not.
 
Gonzo said:
We do pay fees. Have you ever look at how much of the ticket price is fees. Landing fees, fuel fees, TSA fees, etc.
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I propose we kill the TSA and divert all of its funding to ATC modernization.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
We pay the same fuel fee's as you guys do. Its a fuel tax. So you want to collect landing fee's on us. Alright, go ahead and collect that five dollar landing fee based upon weight, at 3AM. The cost of having somebody there to collect the money is going to be higher than the landing fee's themselves.

I think that 90% of GA pilots are smart enough to realize that there is no reason to go into one of the ultra-busy class Bravo airports. And, if you want to hit us with fee's there, I'm cool with that. But, you want to collect fee's for us to land at a sleepy Class Bravo (MCI, STL and the like), I don't think that's fair. Class Charlie and Delta, heck no on fee's. Radar service and IFR flight, no way. I went in a class Bravo last night (MCI) just to do a full stop/taxi back, to show a student pilot what it's like to operate in a busier environment. Did I hurt anything, absolutly not. Approach told me they would have to vector me for a while to get a hole to get me in, but they had no problem with it. Would have I done that in ATL, ORD, NYC, probably not.
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You might not but people do. It is not just light GA planes I have had king airs slow down way out and I have had a Airnet be-58 do 150-170 to the numbers.
 
gatorbuc99 said:
I'm a 100 hour vfr guy who's flown into Hartsfield in a C172 3 times with no problems. That's a little bit of a blanket generalization, don't you think? I'm no Bob Hoover...but if you do your research and follow procedures...regardless of how low time you are, you should be able to operate safely and cause no problems whatsoever in very busy airspace. Are there idiots who get in over their heads or put themselves in bad positions? Sure, people do dumb things in every walk of life.

I dunno, maybe i'll feel differently if i ever get to where you are but right now, i feel slighted by that suggestion.
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Right on gatorbuc99. There is no reason for you to be denied access to ATL or anywhere else if you are certed and control clears you to be there. Flying in busy corridors is like driving on busy highways. If you pay attention to what you are doing and what's going on around you then you'll be just fine. And you are right gator, there are idiots who get in over their heads or put themselves in bad positions. For some reason Buffalo New York and "that's why they call it commercial aviation kids" comes to mind immediately. Right Velo?? ;)
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
We pay the same fuel fee's as you guys do. Its a fuel tax. So you want to collect landing fee's on us. Alright, go ahead and collect that five dollar landing fee based upon weight, at 3AM. The cost of having somebody there to collect the money is going to be higher than the landing fee's themselves.

I think that 90% of GA pilots are smart enough to realize that there is no reason to go into one of the ultra-busy class Bravo airports. And, if you want to hit us with fee's there, I'm cool with that. But, you want to collect fee's for us to land at a sleepy Class Bravo (MCI, STL and the like), I don't think that's fair. Class Charlie and Delta, heck no on fee's. Radar service and IFR flight, no way. I went in a class Bravo last night (MCI) just to do a full stop/taxi back, to show a student pilot what it's like to operate in a busier environment. Did I hurt anything, absolutly not. Approach told me they would have to vector me for a while to get a hole to get me in, but they had no problem with it. Would have I done that in ATL, ORD, NYC, probably not.
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If you don't like paying your landing / ramp fees, take it up with the local government that owns the property. Not the airlines, or the airline's pilots, or even the FAA.
 
pullup said:
First class "captain" right here folks!
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pullup, love your sarcasm here but isn't this a putdown of the truly first class captains out there?? The "real pros" in the business aren't insecure like this. The first rate captain has a quiet confidence in his abilities and earns a quiet yet firm respect from his peers. "Real pros" don't need to run around trying to "big time" people on internet message boards. Don't you find it quite pathetic yet absolutely hilarious??
I know I do. :D
 
pullup said:
Doesn't matter, he has every right to try and get in. Controllers don't want him in they don't have to let him in. Maybe he went in at 3 am for all we know.
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This happened to me one time. I was flying by Dulles and one of the controllers was vectoring me. I joked with him and said, you know, I'm just about set up for a downwind for the runway you're vectoring me around, maybe I should do a touch and go.

He said you want it? Cause you can have it. I've got nothing else to do and nobody else is here.

This was at about 130 AM.

Do that at 130PM and it would have been a different story. Hell, on the flight out, at about 8:30 PM, one controller gave me clearance into the class B airspace and handed me off. The first thing the next controller said was were you cleared into my airspace? I can understand that, because the last thing he wants to deal with when he's got hundreds of airliners coming in and out is a little C172. But I was cleared into there, so I belonged there just like they did.
 
Velocipede said:
Yeah, its the Major Leagues. Even some of our guys need a little hand holding the first time they see EWR, ORD, DFW and DCA. They'll need it when we start ATL in the fall, too.

If the T-Ball, Pony League and Junior Varsity players want to fly there, they need to pay for the privilege. Otherwise, they're just interfering with U.S. commerce.

That's why they call it COMMERCIAL AVIATION kids. Even the military stays out of those airports unless they have a mission there.
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I think you can't top what an arrogant jerk you can be, then POOOF.

When I was committing commercial aviation into the above named "busy" airports, and what was a bigger issue was a non-"busy" airport I never thought "huh, those guys are in my way". I would get grumpy when A certain tower at A certain airport wouldn't space me far enough behind piston props on several occasions when I'd be on downwind and the piston plane would be coming in from a different direction. It certainly wasn't the norm at most airports. Other than that, come fly with me.

I get more frustrated after 14 hours of being slowed to maneuver behind a 737. Maybe we should make a rule that domestic flights should give way to international flights, since we have more commerce aboard. Because this idea is just as obtuse as your "proposal".

Regards,

A bush league commercial pilot.
 
Thanks, Snoop...and well said, Pola,r and some of the other big iron drivers. Velo, i'm simply excersising the PRIVILEGES of a liscense i EARNED. Maybe i had business in ATL, maybe not...that's beside the point. The point is that you can safely operate a small airplane in busy airspace, into a large airport...furthermore, even a wet-behind-the-ears low time guy can do that as long as you're diligent in operating safely and efficiently within the system.

What about the smaller airports regionals have introduced service to in the last 5-10 years? So they move in and the little guys should be automatically and instantly kicked out, that's what you're saying? You don't hear about GA guys complaining about 121/135 traffic, it's the other way around.

And user fees would make a huge difference in safety, there would be alot of people doing alot of skimming and scud running and really pushing the envelope, i always use flight following when available cuz there've been a coupla close calls around ATL's Bravo that could have been really bad had i not had a second pair of eyes in my corner.

p.s. sorry for hijacking the thread
 
gatorbuc99,

I heard the stories about the day trip into ATL. I flipped open your photo album and I read:

gatorbuc99's photo album said:
This was May of 2007 a coupla months after i earned my PPL. I'd been wanting to fly into Atl really bad so i called up the boys at approach and let them know i'd like to get in VFR to which they said they'd try to accommodate my request the best they could.
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And I commend you for doing your research, and setting up a game plan to respect their operation.

Kudos...
 
I agree about the international ops... they should get first dibs into an airport... I couldn't believe a Lufthansa airplane was put in a hold after making its way across the Atlantic to come into ATL.

And, I hate those stupid airplanes that can't do 142 Vref.... that's such bullcrap.

:D

Seriously, get out of my way you "major airline pilots", your clogging up the skies for the airlines that fly most of the passengers around the states, the regionals!
 
Alrighty, I'm putting this thread to bed because it's starting to get a little "airliners.net".
 
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