Anyone know a DER who can inspect on vintage airplanes?

Wolfy

Wolfy

Well-Known Member
I'm supposed to fly a Curtis Junior on the American Barnstormers Tour this summer, starting June 17th. The plane is being built right now in Brodhead, WI. The builder/owner is putting on a continental A-65. I don't exactly what he had planned before, but it turns out that he is going to need to have it inspected by a Designated Engineer Representative. The problem is that almost none of these guys deal with light aircraft. We need someone who can inspect it and sign it off between the beginning of May and the middle of June. I'd say we can get the plane anywhere in the country if it meant getting this done.

He's already contacting people in the area and spreading out. I'm researching online and asking the EAA. What I'm asking of you is to ask anyone you know who has changed the engine on a light airplane without using an STC if they know a DER who can help us.

Thank you.
 
I asked my dad if he or anyone he knows can help (he's an A&P IA at MRJ, Iowa County) and this is what he said:

Hi Amber, have the guy contact Joe Norris at EAA. He should be able to get his questions answered.
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So I don't know who Joe Norris is, or how to contact him, but apparently he's a guy who can help!
 
I know they had someone come in to inspect a Pitts where I work a year or so ago. I can ask who it was tomorrow.
 
Joe Norris is a good guy and he works for EAA. He is also in the National Waco Club and owns a beautiful Waco UPF-7. He would be my starting point. I would call EAA and track him down from there.
 
Wolfy said:
No, standard category. Rebuilding would actually be more accurate.
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Did you send a form 337 to Oklahoma City requesting approval of, in this case, a Major Alteration?

Since you don't have an STC or other approved data, then you have to get whatever "acceptable" methods and materials you're using approved by the FAA. (although I guess you know this already)

Have you contacted your FSDO or GADO?
 
Thank you all so much for the quick replies!

ahw01 said:
http://www.vintageaircraft.org/der/
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I'm not sure if this program has really started yet. All I can find is the checklist to become one. I'll email them and keep looking in to it.

MQAAord said:
I asked my dad if he or anyone he knows can help (he's an A&P IA at MRJ, Iowa County) and this is what he said:



So I don't know who Joe Norris is, or how to contact him, but apparently he's a guy who can help!
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Thank you. He seems to be in charge of homebuilding at the EAA. I think an email should find its way to him.

Mariano said:
Did you send a form 337 to Oklahoma City requesting approval of, in this case, a Major Alteration?

Since you don't have an STC or other approved data, then you have to get whatever "acceptable" methods and materials you're using approved by the FAA. (although I guess you know this already)

Have you contacted your FSDO or GADO?
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I haven't yet. To be honest, I don't know much about this side of airplanes. I'm just trying to help the owner however I can since this is my shot at flying on the tour. I think that might have been the option he talked about when he said he could do it through the office in Chicago, but that would take six months.
 
Mariano said:
Did you send a form 337 to Oklahoma City requesting approval of, in this case, a Major Alteration?

Since you don't have an STC or other approved data, then you have to get whatever "acceptable" methods and materials you're using approved by the FAA. (although I guess you know this already)

Have you contacted your FSDO or GADO?
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Why would he need an STC? He's not changing the design or altering the airplane. He's just rebuilding the thing. Or, is there something I'm missing?
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Why would he need an STC? He's not changing the design or altering the airplane. He's just rebuilding the thing. Or, is there something I'm missing?
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If he is installing an engine that is not in the original Type Certificate (which I deduct is the case since the OP says that they don't have an STC, and they need approval from an engineer) then it is change of the Type Certificate, therefore it is a Major Alteration. If there was approved data, then an IA could sign the aircraft for return to service after the work was completed. However, if the data is just "acceptable" then the FAA has to approve that data before the airplane can be legally flown again.

This is what I understand from the original post, at least that I'm the one missing something. :)
 
Mariano said:
If he is installing an engine that is not in the original Type Certificate (which I deduct is the case since the OP says that they don't have an STC, and they need approval from an engineer) then it is change of the Type Certificate, therefore it is a Major Alteration. If there was approved data, then an IA could sign the aircraft for return to service after the work was completed. However, if the data is just "acceptable" then the FAA has to approve that data before the airplane can be legally flown again.

This is what I understand from the original post, at least that I'm the one missing something. :)
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Ok but correct me if I am missing something, couldnt he just have it reclassified as a experimental, due to the changes. Seems it would make your life easier, and shouldnt really affect the way you fly it, unless you plan on using it for commercial purposes, thats the only downside I can see to this.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Why would he need an STC? He's not changing the design or altering the airplane. He's just rebuilding the thing. Or, is there something I'm missing?
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Mariano got it right. The Continental A-65 is not the original engine for the airplane. The original is a Szekely SR-3. There are all kinds of reasons we can't use that.
 
Nigel Croker said:
Ok but correct me if I am missing something, couldnt he just have it reclassified as a experimental, due to the changes. Seems it would make your life easier, and shouldnt really affect the way you fly it, unless you plan on using it for commercial purposes, thats the only downside I can see to this.
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What you write makes sense. He might be planning to use it for commercial purposes.
 
We're going to be selling rides on the tour, and using it as the press plane to give rides to reporters.

JCers will also get the inner circle discount!
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Oh, ok, for the engine. I thought you were saying that you needed an STC/337 for the restoration. I missed the engine change part. My bad.
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Restoration is quite a wide term. Any part of the restoration accomplished using the same materials and processes as in the Type Certificate, and the Approved Maintenance Manual will be considered a minor repair. Anything that deviates from the Type certificate, even using a different type of fabric to re-cover the aircraft, is a major alteration. It needs a form 337 and to be inspected by an IA before the aircraft can be returned to service.

I supposed that person performing the work in this particular aircraft, already sent a form 337 to Oklahoma City. Without an STC, it is the mechanic job to explain and convince the FAA that the methods and materials he is going to use are safe. I deduct that the FAA probably approved the alteration, but since the engine that is being installed is more powerful than the original, further testing is required to guarantee the structural integrity of the aircraft, since the airframe will be subjected to higher structural loads.
 
Nigel Croker said:
Ok but correct me if I am missing something, couldnt he just have it reclassified as a experimental, due to the changes. Seems it would make your life easier, and shouldnt really affect the way you fly it, unless you plan on using it for commercial purposes, thats the only downside I can see to this.
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You can't just reclassify a TCed airplane to Experimental, it can be done for testing a particular redesign, part or engine, but the AC has to be returned to its original TC with an STC for the redesign, part or engine after testing or used for continued testing. Also you can't take passengers other than required crew members as well as other very strict criteria deemed necessary by the FAA/DER/DAR.
 
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