"Any left turn or Next left turn"

[whysoserial]

On a similar note, what about reverse highspeed turn offs? For some reason I am certain I read/heard somewhere that you can't take a reverse highspeed unless given specific permission by ATC. Or maybe that is just a Charlotte thing.

Since I came across the reference, here ya go.

4-3-20. Exiting the Runway After Landing ​

The following procedures must be followed after landing and reaching taxi speed.
a. Exit the runway without delay at the first available taxiway or on a taxiway as instructed by ATC. Pilots shall not exit the landing runway onto another runway unless authorized by ATC. At airports with an operating control tower, pilots should not stop or reverse course on the runway without first obtaining ATC approval.


Taking a reverse high speeds pretty much requires you to stop and reverse course which is a double whammy

 

[Barty]

I regularly hear ATC direct aircraft at a local airport to turn off onto one of the intersecting runways that are a little past mid-field on the primary runway at the airport. Given the number of runway/taxiway incursions they have there, it is often better for them to have someone turning off into an inactive runway than hang around for whomever is trying to negotiate the "maze" as it is sometimes called of taxiways at midfield. It gets the landing aircraft out of the way and allows them to keep things moving fluidly.

At some uncontrolled airports, sometimes the only way to get around was to turn off onto an intersecting runway unless you want to back-taxi the active or taxi on the grass adjacent to the runway because of a lack of taxiways at certain points along the runway.

 

[zmiller4]

Whysoserial,

My point is this: the AIM is pretty clear that unless the controller tells you otherwise, they want you off the runway and clear of the hold bars immediately after landing. When I was instructing, my students *always* were taught to stop when clear of them, get a taxi clearance, then go. That doesn't always work in the airline world. There are airports busy enough that if you stop, you will get chewed out (ORD). There are also airports where if you don't turn onto a parallel taxiway after clearing, you'll be hanging over the hold bars (BUR).

I don't think we're really disagreeing--I don't support making up taxi clearances. I just don't think it's necessarily violating a taxi clearance if we start a turn onto a parallel before hearing your explicit instructions to taxi to the gate.

Out of curiousity, what facility do you work at? I saw you've been there for a few months now--have you been mostly working ground or tower, or do they switch you all off in between them?

 

[woutlaw]

I hope everyone knows that I'm not encouraging anyone to NOT cross the bars, just giving you something to think about at a towered airport. There's plenty of controllers who don't know this and will insist the pilot to cross the hold bars if they're stopped and not all the way across, not completely necessary. The controller should continue to conduct business. I am a pilot too, we all know there's a group who think those lines are supposed to always be in front of them so a little encouraging is sometimes needed, usually if someone is exiting behind them, obviously. Plus, when you stop short of the bars you are allowed to cross, you look like a stupid head

Roger that.

Where it clarifies things for me in particular is at one airport I frequent where the parallel runways are close together and the hold short lines are so close that I can't be fully across the bars of the runway I just left without crossing the parallel runway's hold short lines.

I've always made sure to stop before the oncoming parallel's bars, obviously, which left the tail hanging over "my" bars out of necessity and was always a bit worried that technically there was a runway incursion when traffic was cleared to land/depart behind me.

Your post cleared that bit up. It's just one of those oddball situations and I dig the operational need/logic.

Thanks!

Will

 

[whysoserial]

Whysoserial,

My point is this: the AIM is pretty clear that unless the controller tells you otherwise, they want you off the runway and clear of the hold bars immediately after landing. When I was instructing, my students *always* were taught to stop when clear of them, get a taxi clearance, then go. That doesn't always work in the airline world. There are airports busy enough that if you stop, you will get chewed out (ORD). There are also airports where if you don't turn onto a parallel taxiway after clearing, you'll be hanging over the hold bars (BUR).

I don't think we're really disagreeing--I don't support making up taxi clearances. I just don't think it's necessarily violating a taxi clearance if we start a turn onto a parallel before hearing your explicit instructions to taxi to the gate.

Out of curiousity, what facility do you work at? I saw you've been there for a few months now--have you been mostly working ground or tower, or do they switch you all off in between them?

This is true. If you can get across the bars, do it. I've just been trying to say that even though you might not be across them, it doesn't mean you have closed the runway.

If they yell at you for stopping, that's their thing unless it says somewhere in the af/d or some other publication that you are requested to keep taxing. Otherwise it's right out of the aim that you don't go anywhere unless you get a clearance. With the airlines, we generally call them first so they can keep moving as is the case at ORD or wherever. It's an efficiency thing. We know everyone wants to keep moving (airines), but sometimes at a mixed type of traffic airport, you could find yourself nose to nose with a piper cub should you venture out on your own but more often than not, we'll move the traffic around you if we have the taxiway for it. Hell, if we see you on final, we'll start clearing the normal path to the gate.

The one's that don't call at all are the ones that will piss you off the most and ruin it for everyone and I don't think any of them would taxi to a runway without calling either

But ya, I'm not fighting with you...just conversating

I can pm about the last part. I'm fairly private. Everyone rotates on each position generally so you will work everything throughout the day. Clearance/ground/local.

 

[mrivc211]

On a similar note, what about reverse highspeed turn offs? For some reason I am certain I read/heard somewhere that you can't take a reverse highspeed unless given specific permission by ATC. Or maybe that is just a Charlotte thing.

We had an EMB take the reverse in lax unannounced and it nearly caused a crash with a B744/A340 cant remember.

 

[LawnGnome]

It's poor phraseology on the controllers behalf...if he wants you to turn down a runway, he should state, "Turn left on runway 19." If he doesn't want you turning on a runway, he can always wait to give you exiting instructions after the a/c has crossed any runways, or always direct him where to turn.