Another BIG thanks to Jetblue.......

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Dugie8 said:
Problem is BB, the civility is expected to only go one way, towards the popular view. There is no moderation of the "putting down of..." un popular views, but when Velo, albeit brash, brings up a VERY GOOD POINT, it is a free for all on him/her.

This is a great place, however the one sidedness of arguments and moderation are not doing any of the new guys and gals any favours.

Velo, I say post on as you have been.
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I'm not following you, are you saying that were bad for not sharing the same view as Velo? This is JC, not everyone will alwways agree on an issue or issues.

Also, I think it is no ones fault that he has no allies in this fight. Not all arguements on here are one sided, or suffer from group think.

Would threads like these be more interesting in the matter of debate vs. entertainment if there was someone who agreed with his thoughs on the issue. Yes. As it is, it is JC vs. Velo, with a spirinkle of DE727 and C_F for good measure.

But just because his opinions, are unpopular doesn't mean that were bad (if that is what you're saying ) for disagreeing.

Lastly, some have called for the thread to be closed and Velo to be banned. i am in agreement with Velo when he retorts that just because his opinion is unpopular the group think as it was termed wants to shut him down permanantly.

That in my opinion, is wrong. Since when did JC become a place of censorship?
 
Wow. As much as some people scream about professionalism in this industry/career, there sure is a lack of that in this thread, and many others as of late. I sure hope that the general public doesn't come across this site; or better yet, the media, and start reading some of this.

Seggy is 100% correct. Educating people is the correct way to open peoples minds to issues. A pissing match, however, is not. Are JetBlue pilots going to respond to an ALPA carrier/ pilot denying them jumpseats, and getting in a pissing match, by then voting ALPA in? Probably not. But an offer to get them to work, or home, along with a polite education, just might open their minds, and show what a class act ALPA carriers, and their pilots are, thus opening their minds to the idea of voting ALPA in.

Treat me like Schnit, and why does that give me any reason to support any organization you are a part of. ** not directed toward anyone in particular **
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
I'm not following you, are you saying that were bad for not sharing the same view as Velo? This is JC, not everyone will alwways agree on an issue or issues.

Also, I think it is no ones fault that he has no allies in this fight. Not all arguements on here are one sided, or suffer from group think.

Would threads like these be more interesting in the matter of debate vs. entertainment if there was someone who agreed with his thoughs on the issue. Yes. As it is, it is JC vs. Velo, with a spirinkle of DE727 and C_F for good measure.

But just because his opinions, are unpopular doesn't mean that were bad (if that is what you're saying ) for disagreeing.

Lastly, some have called for the thread to be closed and Velo to be banned. i am in agreement with Velo when he retorts that just because his opinion is unpopular the group think as it was termed wants to shut him down permanantly.

That in my opinion, is wrong. Since when did JC become a place of censorship?
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No no Max, you are missing my point. Go back and read this thread from post 1, the only thing Velo said that could be an "attack" was "Whatever Seggy..." if you go on to read the real first attack on Velo was Screaming Emu quoting Velo as "BLAH BLAH BLAH". No one said anything to that, and then it snowballed. Velo is only human, to be attacked, and I would call it a bit rough even by the mods, what should he do, give up his point and walk away? Well, why should he, no one else does, including the mods.

I happen to agree with Velo and how to use a jumpseat, it isn't a school desk it is a FREE ride from point A to point B, nothing more. If X pilot group is being "bad" you don't get to go out for recess, and yup sorry to say, but in this industry you are guilty by association. Don't like, do something about the situation, but don't expect freebies from those that rightfully feel they are being pushed down by X pilot group doing Y action(s).

There will be differences of opinions on things, but if ya'll really think that the A list group here at JC has all the right answers, come on now, you really need to put down the koolaid and maybe take a step back and look at WHY you are agreeing with certain people.
 
Educational tool.....ha. What a bunch of kindergarten crap. You actually think guys will sit through being preached for 2 hours with out snapping and telling him to stfu. I highly doubt it.

This "guy" is full of himself. Leave him be.
 
Dugie8 said:
I happen to agree with Velo and how to use a jumpseat, it isn't a school desk it is a FREE ride from point A to point B, nothing more. If X pilot group is being "bad" you don't get to go out for recess, and yup sorry to say, but in this industry you are guilty by association. Don't like, do something about the situation, but don't expect freebies from those that rightfully feel they are being pushed down by X pilot group doing Y action(s)..
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Exactly correct, Dugie.
 
Velocipede said:
Or maybe its the Political Action Committee who is up on Capitol Hill EVERY SINGLE DAY lobbying for issues important to pilots. Yeah, ALPA doesn't do squat. You're right.
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Off topic?

I ran into a guy here in DC doing just that today. He looked tired from the heat, both outside and inside. I got him a Venti Frap from Starbucks. Now he is likely wired and hot. The Hill can be mighty unfriendly at times.
 
"but don't expect freebies from those that rightfully feel they are being pushed down by X pilot group doing Y action(s).."

I don't know. It's one thing when the entire Alaska MEC gets together and says "don't take JetBlue guys" or the Alaska pilot group votes to not take JetBlue guys. But when a Capt is pushing a personal agenda with the jumpseat, I think that crosses the line.

If I was a JetBlue guy and Velo denied me the jumpseat for nothing more than being a JetBlue guy, I'd have my jumpseat committe talk to the Alaska jumpseat committe. Velo can push his agenda to his hearts content, but, when it starts to effect his fellow Alaska pilots in a negative way, I could see it coming back to bite him in the butt.
 
I'm guessing he isn't a commuter. That said, even if I don't agree with his opinion, at least he has one.
 
DE727UPS said:
"but don't expect freebies from those that rightfully feel they are being pushed down by X pilot group doing Y action(s).."

I don't know. It's one thing when the entire Alaska MEC gets together and says "don't take JetBlue guys" or the Alaska pilot group votes to not take JetBlue guys. But when a Capt is pushing a personal agenda with the jumpseat, I think that crosses the line.

If I was a JetBlue guy and Velo denied me the jumpseat for nothing more than being a JetBlue guy, I'd have my jumpseat committe talk to the Alaska jumpseat committe. Velo can push his agenda to his hearts content, but, when it starts to effect his fellow Alaska pilots in a negative way, I could see it coming back to bite him in the butt.
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That is a very good point Don, but what all this really boils down to is we as pilots have very few options left for "self help". A jump seat war ain't the best thing in the world nor the nicest but it is a tool. Are you going to get any jumpseat chairman to "ban" one carrier from a jumpseat, I doubt it since it is a two way street. I don't think GoJets is officially banned from anyone's jumpseat, I could be wrong though.
 
Believe me, I have lobbied the Jumpseat Committee and the Company to have them removed from the reciprocal list. And no one is biting me in the butt. Why?

Final approval authority for the jumpseat rests solely on Captain's discretion. They may not like it or support my decision, but its MY decision and that is inviolate.
 
That may be. And the reason would be that Gojet jumpseats have value in the overall scheme of things. As much as you might dispise what Gojet stands for, if they could get you home, would you refuse to ride on them?

It's a tough call. I can say I wouldn't ride on Gulfstream. I can't say I wouldn't ride on Gojets, I think I even did once if they were (are) UA Express between SDF and ORD.

Should I suppress my opinion on Gojets on the internet if I'm going to accept a ride on their jumpseat? If a Gojets Capt rejected me cause he knew me as DE727UPS from the internet would I jump up and down?

I don't think so, I'd just go get a hotel, grab a beer, and tell the story here at JC. Way more fun.

"Final approval authority for the jumpseat rests solely on Captain's discretion"

That may very well be. But there could be negative consequences that go along with it. I know there would be where I work if I started denying Jetblue guys.
 
DE727UPS said:
That may be. And the reason would be that Gojet jumpseats have value in the overall scheme of things. As much as you might dispise what Gojet stands for, if they could get you home, would you refuse to ride on them?
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Or better yet, if Gojets was the last flight that would be able to get you to work on time...
 
Champcar said:
Educational tool.....ha. What a bunch of kindergarten crap. You actually think guys will sit through being preached for 2 hours with out snapping and telling him to stfu. I highly doubt it.

This "guy" is full of himself. Leave him be.
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Please explain to me how I am 'full of myself'. This should be interesting.

Where in my post did I say 'preach' to anyone for any amount of time? Please point that out to me. Or just don't put words in my mouth.
 
I would have no problem jumpseating or non-revving on GoJets or whoever else that is not liked by many. You'd be using an organization you don't like to give you a free ride! Buying a ticket on a carrier that is not respected is the only boycott type thing I can think of, but certainly not jumpseating. It's almost like they are burning their gas for you.
 
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