Another 15 Qs for Colgan

[Cav]

Most of the feed that we do, even the off season MYR or CMH ( which we really don't do) is not HUB to HUB. EWR-PVD? Never going to see anything larger than a Q. Maybe if they would reduce the frequency of flights, and stop trying to run 6x a day to an outstation things would improve.

I was on a offseason EWR-MYR flight 12 months ago that was a 737. Sat first class in fact. CMH was a 737 as well....oh and PVD, yep took a CAL crew up there who was deadheading in the back to fly back to EWR the next day. So wrong again. MHT was a 737 not long ago as well. CAL was competing quite fine 12 months ago.

The coming of the Q's only took some flying from CAL and gave some to XJT who gave some to Colgan. Basically the @#$& ran down hill. The big loser in whole deal was the CAL pilots. When they lose, or any other mainline carrier pilots, I feel like I lose because what is lost is not easily regained. Therefore, my career prospects continue to slowly spiral down the proverbial toilet bowl. But hey like they say, I'm just a pilot and mgmt makes the decisions. :whatever:

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

I was on a offseason EWR-MYR flight 12 months ago that was a 737. Sat first class in fact. CMH was a 737 as well....oh and PVD, yep took a CAL crew up there who was deadheading in the back to fly back to EWR the next day. So wrong again. MHT was a 737 not long ago as well. CAL was competing quite fine 12 months ago.

Colgan doesn't do CMH. PVD goes DH8, ERJ, DH8,DH8.. no 737 there - all the way through may. Looking back it was 4 erj's a day. CAL crews will divert to PVD when Bos weather goes downhill. MHT hasn't been a regular 737 in a LONG LONG time, the last I remember regular service to MHT in a 737 was just post 9/11. MYR goes back to 737-500 post april, 1 flight a day initially, then up to 3 flts peak season... with no more Q's doing it.
It seems CAL tends to reduce service to airports where they squar off with SWA. MHT, PVD, ISP - all reduced as SWA moved in.

I am sure you rode in the front of a nearly empty 737 down there last off season - which is why they arn't serving it with a 737 now.

Of all the CAL guys I've talked to, none of them really seam to care. Most say they rather it, because it's a nicer commute without weight restrictions. XJTwasn't enabled to pick up more flying with the coming of the Q, Otherwise they wouldn't have parked airframes.

The Q gets moved around a LOT. we go to diffrent places all the time, as it seems CAL will put a Q where the loads don't supporta 737, but are slightly too much for an ERJ. ( have you seen the bos-ewr loads? 70-80 seats open all the time... but hey, service every hour)

The real problem here is Mainline's fetish for reducing volume and increasing frequency. Reversing that would alleviate ATC flow problems, require larger - mainline aircraft, and give pilots more to bargin with. If you only had 1, maybe 2 fligths a day from pvd - a 737 would be viable.

If your going to call me out on equipment types serving airports, at least go through the effort to check first. CMH is 4 ERJ's a day btw.

CA america paint would cost colgan too much.... they will let the codeshare flip the bill for company colours Anyways, i think the 5 son's are about out of it now anyways.

 

[jtrain609]

Just so I make sure nobody is BSing, but those ERJ's were never weight restricted either, right? With the weight increases that the ERJ's have gotten, I didn't see a weight restricted airplane for the last 6 months I was at Express, and we almost never had weight restrictions on a leg over an hour prior to that.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

Just so I make sure nobody is BSing, but those ERJ's were never weight restricted either, right? With the weight increases that the ERJ's have gotten, I didn't see a weight restricted airplane for the last 6 months I was at Express, and we almost never had weight restrictions on a leg over an hour prior to that.

Normally, the PVD flt was restricted in bad wx, Alternate fuel and high pax loads gave gross landing weight issues at EWR with a planned flight time of 28 minutes or whatever it was.

I personally have never had an issue with it... but seems that it's a lingering bitter point amongst some... prob. the old guys who suddenly had to drive

 

[jtrain609]

PVD before the weight mod would probably be weight restricted in that situation, but I don't think anymore. It's probably the old guys who got bumped once and thought that all ERJ's are weight restricted. Truth be told, it's weight restricted very seldomly.

 

[OldTownPilot]

Plus now all the ER, uh, EP, E-whatevers are gone. Unfortunately that led to the furloughs, but those were the birds that had it real rough, and they always seemed to be sent to BGR in the middle of the summer. :banghead:

PVD and MHT have had a 735 overnight in the summer of 07 (I rode it to MHT one night that summer). Its only been a summer deal since 9/11. The old BH guys that lived in PWM loved the 30 hour MHT layovers.

 

[Nick]

Colgan doesn't do CMH. PVD goes DH8, ERJ, DH8,DH8.. no 737 there - all the way through may. Looking back it was 4 erj's a day. CAL crews will divert to PVD when Bos weather goes downhill. MHT hasn't been a regular 737 in a LONG LONG time, the last I remember regular service to MHT in a 737 was just post 9/11.

I'm mostly reading this discussion from the sidelines but in the interest of being accurate, PVD regularly had 737 service and not just diversions. I know a CAL pilot who commutes out of PVD who would get those layovers at home on a regular basis.

Additionally MHT had 737 service in 2004/2005.

Point is, these cities all used to have mainline flights. Perhaps CAL needed the lift at mainline badly as a trickle down from more 757s going international, more 737s filling the gap, and smaller cities lost the 737 flights.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

Mht hasn't been a regular in a long time seasonal isn't regular service.

Just trying to point out that the service colgan is doing now, wouldn't have been a CAL plane. Q or not. Loads have been down so far it will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[Cav]

I'm mostly reading this discussion from the sidelines but in the interest of being accurate, PVD regularly had 737 service and not just diversions. I know a CAL pilot who commutes out of PVD who would get those layovers at home on a regular basis.

Additionally MHT had 737 service in 2004/2005.

Point is, these cities all used to have mainline flights. Perhaps CAL needed the lift at mainline badly as a trickle down from more 757s going international, more 737s filling the gap, and smaller cities lost the 737 flights.

Thank you this is what I was referring to. I was never talking about service today. I was referring to service 12 months ago if not longer. Further more my previous posts never said XJT picked up flying. I only stated we picked up more routes. Big difference. I'm quite aware of why we parked aircraft. I've been working in the Cal system for a long time. Oh and by the way CMH had at least 1 737 every weekday to EWR in the not so distant past. Apparently my "research" is spot on.

 

[Cav]

For the sake of clarification before anyone gets the wrong idea I have no problem with Colgan. I'm looking forward to you guys improving you pay and work rules and will be happy to attend any rallies you may have down the line.

 

[Cav]

PVD before the weight mod would probably be weight restricted in that situation, but I don't think anymore. It's probably the old guys who got bumped once and thought that all ERJ's are weight restricted. Truth be told, it's weight restricted very seldomly.

Have not had a weight restriction in atleast 5 months since the EPs are gone and LRs have the weight mods. Load it up and take 2 pilot jumpseaters too!

 

[machnumber]

Heah, PDT guys, too bad so sad but I got mine! You gotta think long term man. So what do you think of Republic guys who bid MKE or MCI to be at home while Midwest guys are getting to spend A LOT of time at home. Is that OK?

As far as the Republic guys....

If I was commuting out of MKE or MCI and the company opened a base up you can bet I would bid it in a heartbeat. If the company is going to open a base up somewhere they will find someone to go, look at the Hawaii operation Republic is doing now. They found enough people to head out there didn't they?

If you want to accuse me of being a bad person for wanting to be based in the city I live in, then I genuinely feel bad for you and must say where are your priorities? My 1 priority is NOT work, it is NOT my career, and it is NOT the future of the airlines. Maybe you think I'm a terrible person for putting family first in my life, I don't care. But if my company offers me the chance to spend more time at home, more time with family... How could any accuse someone of being a bad person for that? I do not make bases, I do not write contracts.

 

[kellwolf]

As far as the Republic guys....

If I was commuting out of MKE or MCI and the company opened a base up you can bet I would bid it in a heartbeat. If the company is going to open a base up somewhere they will find someone to go, look at the Hawaii operation Republic is doing now. They found enough people to head out there didn't they?

If you want to accuse me of being a bad person for wanting to be based in the city I live in, then I genuinely feel bad for you and must say where are your priorities? My 1 priority is NOT work, it is NOT my career, and it is NOT the future of the airlines. Maybe you think I'm a terrible person for putting family first in my life, I don't care. But if my company offers me the chance to spend more time at home, more time with family... How could any accuse someone of being a bad person for that? I do not make bases, I do not write contracts.

I understand where you're coming from, and I, too, put my family first. For that reason, I'd prefer NOT to stick them with career regional wages. As it is, we don't have much in the way of savings, and if my car had actually gone kaput like I thought, what little we are able to sock back a month would be going to a car payment. The only way I'm gonna be able to get out of that cycle is move on to a bigger and better airline.

The Hawaii flying, IMO, is different than the MCI/MKE flying. It was an independent startup, not taking advantage of a dying carrier whose pilots have better pay and work rules. For every one of those positions eliminated, it's one fewer position that'll be around later.

I'm not saying you're a terrible person, and I can only think of a couple on hear that will. I just tend to take a more long term look at the situation.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

[quote=Cav;1090839]Thank you this is what I was referring to. I was never talking about service today. I was referring to service 12 months ago if not longer. Further more my previous posts never said XJT picked up flying. I only stated we picked up more routes. Big difference. I'm quite aware of why we parked aircraft. I've been working in the Cal system for a long time. Oh and by the way CMH had at least 1 737 every weekday to EWR in the not so distant past. Apparently my "research" is spot on.[/quote]


Again... 9l Doesn't do CMH - It was only run sparsely when required. 12 months ago was a whole different ballgame. Airlines could hardly meet staffing, everybody was hiring, there was no end in sight, and crew utilization across the system was way high. We had crewmembers regularly crediting over 120 hours.

2 years ago in PVD, or last summer in PVD it was feasible to run something larger than a Q, with the current economy it is not. MHT is the same way. If Colgan, Commute air, or Express were not there to provide lift, there would be no service to many of these airports RIGHT NOW. PVD and MHT are close to an hour from BOS. They really have no great need to run those airports. CAL wouldn't keep flying to them just because they had the crews and airplanes. If they did, BGR would still be running... not fading into a ghost town. Heck, when re upping the EAS up in Maine, BGR officials were ASKING Colgan to run it from ewr, because they were getting dropped by everybody (not asking CAL). In the CAL system, Colgan runs low in the low 300's for flights a day. Compared to the number of CAL flights, EJT flts etc, it's a drop in the bucket.

This summer, hopefully MHT goes back to 737 service. If the loads don't pick up, I doubt it. I have never even come close to missing a commute out of there. Most loads show an average of 20+ seats open on all 4 flights. The returns are the same way. Station staffing was just cut in half... They say a Q is too much for their staffing to handle in a timely manner, I'm thinking that they are not planning for a 737... esp when they were talking of closing the station during the xjt reductions.


Sorry, I just get kind of upset when people get stuck on what used to be. We all have to be able to adapt to the changing local and global market. We could all be sitting here complaining about why it's not like it was back in the regulated days, when dirty players bought routes and were awarded, prices fixed - EAS built into the system. If you look at the CAL, RAH, XJT, etc. furloughs, most all of those hires were done during the "Boom" over the last year and a half. People were hired into jobs that couldn't really be sustained. Had fuel stayed where it was, loads high, maybe? Slow progressive growth and expansion is a much better way to go. When we hit hiring 250 hr pilots, everybody should have known things were messed up, and I wish management had been able to step back, and reevaluate their position. Had management done their jobs correctly over the last 3 years, most everybody should have been able to grow with the current attrition. Colgan got lucky; we knew we were going to be reducing before the market fell out. We almost furloughed, but didn't have to. We are now back to 1 small class every few months, the way it was. I hope that the new airplanes get spread to other carriers. I would not want to see a large presence with any large carrier - just like to fill a niche market... short legs when a 737 is too much, and an rj isn't enough.

Heck, back in the 80's I remember riding a 747 domestically... Be kind of nice if they brought those back

 

[Cav]

The only way I'm gonna be able to get out of that cycle is move on to a bigger and better airline.

This is the key. The basic point I'm trying to make is that we need to do everything we can to protect and encourage growth in these types of jobs. Obviously our ability to do that is limited. However, if that means a slower path to achieving that job (i.e. less regional expansion and therefore a slower upgrade) or some short term hardship, then so be it.

We all make sacrifices. Some more than others. But never forget that in order to have a "next step" to work towards, short term progress may not always be beneficial. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.