Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
My flight leaves in 10 minutes! "But we are on time, how's that possible"...hmmm "can I see your tickets?" "Oh it boards in 10 minutes and leaves in 40" "oh"
And it's not even summer yet (Passenger vs Pilot)
- Thread starter derg
- Start date
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
Walking away makes the Facebook headline "passenger attacks pilot". Fighting the passenger makes the headline "evil corporate stooge pilot assaults innocent paying customer"
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Again, assuming psycho pax allows one to walk away and disengage, If so, great.
What we're talking about is the • determined to beat on you as you're trying to walk away and with yiur back turned. Better face the threat and do something about it, or news headlines will be the least of your worries. Staying alive or avoiding permanent physical damage being done to you, i guarantee, will become your priority.
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
phill1174
Well-Known Member
You're right, but he had a chance to walk away and he didn't. He decided to be a though guy and follow him out into the doorway. Guess we're going for the second headline. The media can say what they want but everything is right there on camera.
From an AA FA: "I can't believe people. I just had a man throw a cup directly on the floor in front of my face. I politely told him I would be right back for trash, he then picks up the empty cup and throws it on the floor between the seat and my cart then proceeds to close his tray table and lean over to go to sleep. Is this for real??? WTH???"
It makes me sad what people have devolved into. How much better would the world be if we could all just be NICE to each other. You don't have to like the other person, don't have to be their new BFF, but to just be *nice* to each other.
It makes me sad what people have devolved into. How much better would the world be if we could all just be NICE to each other. You don't have to like the other person, don't have to be their new BFF, but to just be *nice* to each other.
Ajax
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I can't understand how anyone would ever think that is appropriate behavior.
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
I think we have a lot of people who are extremely insecure and immature. Nobody is comfortable enough in their own skin to take criticism and either realize "I'm sorry, I was in the wrong" or that it is a BS criticism from an unhappy person and to just let it roll off their shoulders.
The sad thing is, as much as the millennial generation gets crap about being entitled, 9 times out of 10 when I see someone in an airport acting out like a toddler they're well into being middle aged.
When dealing with a rational person, it works out great indeed. Totally agree.
For those times when you are not....you'd better have a plan of some sort, or the irrational person will make a plan for you that you probably won't like. Going through life with the idealism thinking an encounter like that will never happen to you (the general you) if you just act like an adult on your end, or that you will get your way and be able to easily and simply disengage, isn't a viable one. Sad and unfortunate I agree, but nonetheless true.
Agreed. Would be nice if things actually worked out that way 100% of the time. But, dealing with personalities and egos, unfortunately......sometimes it gets to the point of being too late to defuse, and sometimes with someone looking for a confrontation, defusing was never an option they were going to allow from the get go. Sadly, I think we are going to be seeing more of the latter with pax now. And it's going to get worse.
Appropriate behavior? Such an outdated and old fashioned concept. Do whatever you want without regards to anyone. But if that anyone is you, make sure you film it and launch a GoFundMe page.
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
A quick glimpse in the history books will show that everyone having good manners, respect, and politeness in the past more than today is just a myth.
Dphoenix
Love lasagna, hate mondays
Well, maybe it's different at mainline, but at my shop, I encounter people lacking basic customer service skills all the time. I actually did a difficult customer service job for many years and there was quite a bit of training. Granted, we were often dealing with screaming, quite upset people (It was the power/gas company, so if they didn't pay the bill, they had no lights for their children, no heat, what am i supposed to cook little Jimmy, etc). It shocks and awes me how little training I received at the current airline in regards to customer service. Flying the airplane, yes, but talking to customers, no, basically zero training. Maybe there was a slide in indoc, but at that point you're so overloaded with other information. All that stands out is..
"Make sure you make a PA every 15 minutes if you're delayed." Okay but... what should you tell them? What should you NOT say? Should you do it from the cockpit, or the front of the aircraft? And that's just your external customers, you have internal customers as well, ramp, operations, gate agents, rest of the crew... the same soft skills apply.
I vividly remember my very first major hours long maintenance delay... we were waiting for a maintenance guy for quite some time... CA and I went back, chatted with the people who were taking the delay very graciously and in good spirits... served em coffee, some people had more technical questions which we were only too happy to answer. By being in the back... I hear a lady in total tears tell one of the flight attendants that this is the second trip she's taken with Southernjets in a few months and for the second time it's majorly delayed and she's going to miss her connection and so on... i couldn't believe it when he said to her: "Well, what do you want me to do about it?" with his hands on his hips. How could we let a guy like that get in front of and interact with the public? Is it any wonder if a situation escalates? I ended up talking to the lady and calming her down and telling her we'd make sure the gate agent spoke with her when he came back down or check the app, etc. But then I had to talk to the flight attendant to explain that no, we don't do that... and if I had been up front playing Sudoku while we waited for the maintenance guy, I would have never had the chance to 'fix' that customer interaction a little more positively or to try to address the personnel issue.
When you represent the company, and people are upset and frustrated, they just want to be and feel heard. It's really important to let them talk, practice active listening, nod, and let them know you hear their concerns... just that alone will defuse 95% of the situations. If they raise their voice, you keep getting quieter with yours... most people will calm down. Instead of "lady, that ain't going to happen", it should be, "It just isn't possible... what I *can* do is *blank*". I was at the gate the other day during a mx situation and heard something similar from a gate agent towards a customer of ours... escalating and challenging type language. It's a form of hostility and it's never OK to treat a customer that way. Anyway, to try to summarize my thoughts in this long rambling diatribe (and for that I apologize), while this kind of customer behavior isn't okay, it really isn't anything other industries don't deal with... and usually much better. I don't know what kind of training our flight attendants receive, or what flight crew/gate agents at other shops receive, but I remember early on we had videos and training from a company that it appears is still around today. Here's one of their videos, and I think it's a great reminder of dealing with escalated type people on your plane... it's only about 4 minutes. This is talking about on the phone, but it's not very different in person.
When somebody is approaching hysterics, you can't apply logic until they calm down... and telling them to calm down doesn't work. You have to use empathy.
Granted, in our business, while all this is going on, you've got a gate agent that's trying to close the door so... is it a lost cause? I don't know... thoughts?
"Make sure you make a PA every 15 minutes if you're delayed." Okay but... what should you tell them? What should you NOT say? Should you do it from the cockpit, or the front of the aircraft? And that's just your external customers, you have internal customers as well, ramp, operations, gate agents, rest of the crew... the same soft skills apply.
I vividly remember my very first major hours long maintenance delay... we were waiting for a maintenance guy for quite some time... CA and I went back, chatted with the people who were taking the delay very graciously and in good spirits... served em coffee, some people had more technical questions which we were only too happy to answer. By being in the back... I hear a lady in total tears tell one of the flight attendants that this is the second trip she's taken with Southernjets in a few months and for the second time it's majorly delayed and she's going to miss her connection and so on... i couldn't believe it when he said to her: "Well, what do you want me to do about it?" with his hands on his hips. How could we let a guy like that get in front of and interact with the public? Is it any wonder if a situation escalates? I ended up talking to the lady and calming her down and telling her we'd make sure the gate agent spoke with her when he came back down or check the app, etc. But then I had to talk to the flight attendant to explain that no, we don't do that... and if I had been up front playing Sudoku while we waited for the maintenance guy, I would have never had the chance to 'fix' that customer interaction a little more positively or to try to address the personnel issue.
When you represent the company, and people are upset and frustrated, they just want to be and feel heard. It's really important to let them talk, practice active listening, nod, and let them know you hear their concerns... just that alone will defuse 95% of the situations. If they raise their voice, you keep getting quieter with yours... most people will calm down. Instead of "lady, that ain't going to happen", it should be, "It just isn't possible... what I *can* do is *blank*". I was at the gate the other day during a mx situation and heard something similar from a gate agent towards a customer of ours... escalating and challenging type language. It's a form of hostility and it's never OK to treat a customer that way. Anyway, to try to summarize my thoughts in this long rambling diatribe (and for that I apologize), while this kind of customer behavior isn't okay, it really isn't anything other industries don't deal with... and usually much better. I don't know what kind of training our flight attendants receive, or what flight crew/gate agents at other shops receive, but I remember early on we had videos and training from a company that it appears is still around today. Here's one of their videos, and I think it's a great reminder of dealing with escalated type people on your plane... it's only about 4 minutes. This is talking about on the phone, but it's not very different in person.
When somebody is approaching hysterics, you can't apply logic until they calm down... and telling them to calm down doesn't work. You have to use empathy.
Granted, in our business, while all this is going on, you've got a gate agent that's trying to close the door so... is it a lost cause? I don't know... thoughts?
Last edited:
Now the passenger is a "hero of the flight", and the flight crew......especially the Captain.....is getting labled darn near incompetent. Sheesh...
Opinion piece excerpts below....
"The Flight Attendants: They vacillate between confusion and inaction, but others try to help the woman. One tries to hand her a cup of water. It's awkward."
"The Captain: On the video is a person who appears to be the PIC, or Pilot in Command. The pilot in command of an aircraft is the final authority as to the operation of that aircraft. He is also the "In-flight Security Coordinator" -- federal regulations require him to "(p)rovide for the safety of persons ... against acts of criminal violence.
Does this pilot look overly concerned about the safety and well-being of his passengers? There's chaos erupting on his vessel, and he spends most of the video leaning casually against the bulkhead, watching a woman cry and men nearly coming to blows on an aircraft he (ostensibly) commands.
Hey, Skipper, get involved. This is your plane. See to the safety of your passengers and your crew. In fairness, he meanders into the fray at some point, but for the most part, he placidly stares at the fracas as it unfolds before him.
Which brings us to the man known only as "Second-Row Guy." This guy is my hero......"
Excerpts from the CNN opinion piece below, calling it "cellphone democracy on the airlines"
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/23/opinions/cell-phone-democracy-airlines-opinion-cevallos/index.html
Opinion piece excerpts below....
"The Flight Attendants: They vacillate between confusion and inaction, but others try to help the woman. One tries to hand her a cup of water. It's awkward."
"The Captain: On the video is a person who appears to be the PIC, or Pilot in Command. The pilot in command of an aircraft is the final authority as to the operation of that aircraft. He is also the "In-flight Security Coordinator" -- federal regulations require him to "(p)rovide for the safety of persons ... against acts of criminal violence.
Does this pilot look overly concerned about the safety and well-being of his passengers? There's chaos erupting on his vessel, and he spends most of the video leaning casually against the bulkhead, watching a woman cry and men nearly coming to blows on an aircraft he (ostensibly) commands.
Hey, Skipper, get involved. This is your plane. See to the safety of your passengers and your crew. In fairness, he meanders into the fray at some point, but for the most part, he placidly stares at the fracas as it unfolds before him.
Which brings us to the man known only as "Second-Row Guy." This guy is my hero......"
Excerpts from the CNN opinion piece below, calling it "cellphone democracy on the airlines"
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/23/opinions/cell-phone-democracy-airlines-opinion-cevallos/index.html
Last edited:
av8tr1
"Never tell me the odds!"
Really? You think that guy is a hero? I think he's a douchebag who just wants his 2 seconds of fame. He wasn't involved at all in the altercation. Tries to jump in well after the fact and start trouble. I can understand if he got involved when the situation was happening but what ever started it was over and done with but the report writing. Now Mr. Hero wants to jump into the fray and get chit started again and you think he is a hero for that? I think he should have been kicked off the flight for starting an altercation with the crew (granted it was ground crew).
Does anyone know what happened before the cameras were rolling? Has there been any official story about what happened to the woman? All I have heard is she got hit in the face with a stroller and it may or may not have been an accident. In either case clearly it's over and Mr. Hero needs to Sit the frack down and shut the frack up. If he wants to be a hero go join the Army. Don't try to start a fight in the middle of a packed cabin.
And yeah that Capt needs to Capt. the frack up. Looks like a typical weenie who wants to avoid confrontation. Probably his last leg and he just wants to go home.
Heck no I don't think he's a hero! Didn't you see the "sheesh" at the end of my first sentence???
the pax inserted himself into a situation he knew nothing of, and wasn't his business.
I was only quoting how news spin pieces are spinning this whole thing. It's getting out of control.
av8tr1
"Never tell me the odds!"
LOL! Sorry I missed it. Laying on the couch in front of the big screen and getting my JC fix in between commercials on my Ipad.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
At the gate with the door open, it's really not his plane. Airlines made the decision a long time ago and it ain't going back to how it was any time soon.