And it's not even summer yet (Passenger vs Pilot)

mshunter said:
It wouldn't be for defending one's self. Management would find another path for it.
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ShyFlyer said:
Listen, I wholeheartedly agree with you. However, just about any company will gladly dump an employee that stirs up controversy, even if that employee's actions were 100% correct. Given how passenger/airline relations are at the moment, I can't blame the pilot for trying to extract himself from the confrontation. Would I have done the same thing? Probably not. With my personal background, I'm more likely to revert to some of the self-defense training and mindset that I received working for a certain law enforcement agency. I would also expect my employer to terminate my employment for the "embarrassment" I caused them once the social media warriors launched their campaign. I would also expect to "cash in" on my investment in union membership as well.
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If a job with an employer that would place such little value on your physical safety as an employee, is more important than your life or the suffering of serious bodily harm that may well prevent you from keeping that job anyway; then by all means, stand there and take a beating for them.
 
MikeD said:
If a job at a place that would place such little value on your physical safety as an employee, is more important than your life or the suffering of serious bodily harm that may well prevent you from keeping that job anyway; then by all means, stand there and take a beating for them.
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That's not what I said Mike. Come at me physically, and I'll do what's necessary. That doesn't mean that you may or may not have to face the consequences of being in the right.

With today "Social Media Justice Warriors", you'd end up becoming a scapegoat.
 
mshunter said:
That's not what I said Mike. Come at me physically, and I'll do what's necessary. That doesn't mean that you may or may not have to face the consequences of being in the right.

With today "Social Media Justice Warriors", you'd end up becoming a scapegoat.
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Agreed. But at least you'll face whatever you face knowing that you protected yourself from worse or terminal damage, and any company worth half their salt or the union you pay dues to, or hopefully both, will have the integrity to stand by you.
 
MikeD said:
If a job with an employer that would place such little value on your physical safety as an employee, is more important than your life or the suffering of serious bodily harm that may well prevent you from keeping that job anyway; then by all means, stand there and take a beating for them.
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Again, I agree. "Not having my back" was one of the reasons I left a certain private security company. They trained and certified me to carry a firearm but didn't want to go in-depth on scenarios where I could/couldn't use the weapon other than to say that it was for my own defense and that the expectation was that I would basically run and hide if confronted. I knew then that even if I had an iron-clad self defense situation, I would be terminated if I survived (they also didn't seem to think I "needed" a ballistics vest).

I'm not going to take a beating over anything from anyone but I also don't expect a pat on the back from my employer either. When I worked at Wal-Mart back in the day, I used to joke that if a customer came in and wanted to throat-punch the manager, we'd have to allow it to happen because it was far worse to upset a customer than it was to fail to prevent a physical assault.
 
ShyFlyer said:
Again, I agree. "Not having my back" was one of the reasons I left a certain private security company. They trained and certified me to carry a firearm but didn't want to go in-depth on scenarios where I could/couldn't use the weapon other than to say that it was for my own defense and that the expectation was that I would basically run and hide if confronted. I knew then that even if I had an iron-clad self defense situation, I would be terminated if I survived (they also didn't seem to think I "needed" a ballistics vest).

I'm not going to take a beating over anything from anyone but I also don't expect a pat on the back from my employer either. When I worked at Wal-Mart back in the day, I used to joke that if a customer came in and wanted to throat-punch the manager, we'd have to allow it to happen because it was far worse to upset a customer than it was to fail to prevent a physical assault.
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Agree. I wouldnt necessarily expect a pat on the back either by the airline in a situation like this. But i would expect something along the lines of "glad youre ok, sorry you had to face such a situation, is there anything we can do to for you, aside from pressing charges against the assaultive passenger?" That could very well be a fantasyland thought, but it would be a nice thing that a company that actually valued its employees.....like many proclaim to.....would do for said employee forced into that.

And just to be clear, this isnt a situation that anyone sought out or looked for, its a situation forced upon them by someone else, and with all reasonable means to avoid it having been exhausted. Angry psychotic people, will be angry psychotic people.
 
SquatThrust said:
According to this, the dispute arose from the pilot "taking up too much room in the aisle". Still little to no detail on what exactly transpired on board from that, but it seems to point that the passenger likely has some anger issues combined with an emboldened fortitude for being a dick to pilots from the recent UA roast.

http://www.airlineinfo.in/passenger...icer-disembarked-plane-took-much-space-aisle/
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Agreed. The unfortunate situation with UAL that could've likely been handled better by all parties involved; isn't now carte blanche to treat all airline employees like dirt and disrespecfully "just because". That doesn't fly, no pun intended.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
OK so real question:

Lets say I'm just being my usual old Beef Supreme self at the terminal and minding my own when an irate PAX gets a bit in my face and crosses into the getting physical zone. This has already happened without the physical stuff twice. Two different sets of irate PAX have cornered me with questions about why they got stuck at SFO during bad WX and it rapidly turned into "WHY ARE ALL AIRLINE EMPLOYEES LIARS???!!!!" Even though I put on my corporate pilot persona and was very much "yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir." I managed to escape and deescalate both times but lawd, that was a pretty intense customer service situation for a new guy on the first few days of IOE.

How does one get that PAX detained, or in trouble or even get help in this situation of irate PAX going full airline rage and getting physical???

I ask because after my week or two of being a "real airline pilot" I have a sinking suspicion if a PAX assaulted me at the airport the cell phone cameras would come out a bunch of people would stand around and watch/film and the "airport security" wouldn't do anything.

As we all know, fighting back would only make XYZ airline look "hella bad" and likely result in me getting fired/going to jail.
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Dang man, I've never had anything like that happen, but usually I'm all smiles and happy to answer questions about the delays.

I have a feeling the perfect thing to do is throw your arm around the guy, yell "SELFIE TIME!" and get a great photo of you looking all happy with the guy. Then thank him and walk away.

Dude'll probably be so confused you'll be home before he thinks of anything to say.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 
MikeD said:
If a job with an employer that would place such little value on your physical safety as an employee, is more important than your life or the suffering of serious bodily harm that may well prevent you from keeping that job anyway; then by all means, stand there and take a beating for them.
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That's great and all but I got bills to pay, so it's not that I'd stand there and take a beating it's that I'd probably more likely choose flight rather than fight.

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trafficinsight said:
That's great and all but I got bills to pay, so it's not that I'd stand there and take a beating it's that I'd probably more likely choose flight rather than fight.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
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Thats great and all, assuming the assaultive person allows flight as an option. If you can safely disengage, take it.

Remember, everything I've been talking about is for situations when deescalation or flight, have now become options you don't have, and not by your choice. And now have your life and or serious bodily harm at stake. Better be willing to fight for that at least. Or don't, and bills to pay will become the least of your problems.
 
MikeD said:
Thats great and all, assuming the assaultive person allows flight as an option. If you can safely disengage, take it.

Remember, everything I've been talking about is for situations when deescalation or flight, have now become options you don't have, and not by your choice. And now have your life and or serious bodily harm at stake. Better be willing to fight for that at least. Or don't, and bills to pay will become the least of your problems.
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When is it possible to be in a terminal, and not have flight as an option? I'm just trying to imagine a scenario.
 
Luigi said:
When is it possible to be in a terminal, and not have flight as an option? I'm just trying to imagine a scenario.
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Pushed to the ground from behind or unseen, then kicked while on thr ground or it turns into a ground scuffle where all you can do is try to block punches. Or get grabbed and pummeled because fhe crowd is thick enough thst you can't run away. Any number of scenarios that someone determined to attack you, will do.
 
MikeD said:
Agreed.

And I'm not saying to unreasonably beat the pulp out of someone. Am only saying to physically do what's necessary to stop the assaultive threat to yourself. You HAVE to assume the worst: that someone willing to assault you physically, is also willing to kill you, or has no concerns about doing so. This is your life at stake here, or very serious bodily harm. Who the hell cares about perceptions and brand over their freaking life? Un-freaking-believable.
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I don't think anyone here cares about their "brand" or the "brand" of the airline they work for. I do think a lot of people here have put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into their careers, have gotten to where they want to be, and don't want to throw it away over some pissy shoving match that escalated into something worse and got caught on camera. Don't think for a second that none of the big airlines will find a way to hasten your departure from the company if they find it politically convenient after an incident like this.
 
MikeD said:
Agree. I wouldnt necessarily expect a pat on the back either by the airline in a situation like this. But i would expect something along the lines of "glad youre ok, sorry you had to face such a situation, is there anything we can do to for you, aside from pressing charges against the assaultive passenger?" That could very well be a fantasyland thought, but it would be a nice thing that a company that actually valued its employees.....like many proclaim to.....would do for said employee forced into that.
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I don't think its a fantasyland thought because certainly there are companies out there that will (and have) stood behind their employees.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
I don't think anyone here cares about their "brand" or the "brand" of the airline they work for. I do think a lot of people here have put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into their careers, have gotten to where they want to be, and don't want to throw it away over some pissy shoving match that escalated into something worse and got caught on camera. Don't think for a second that none of the big airlines will find a way to hasten your departure from the company if they find it politically convenient after an incident like this.
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May or may not, who knows. In a situation you are cornered with and cannot disengage from, where physical violence has now occurred against you and is continuing, i would be very surprised if thie above was still a concern. Get pummeled enough or just right, you can kiss that career goodbye anyway, without the company's help.

Save your own life. Nobody else may be around to do so for you. The rest is something to worry about afterwards, once you have taken care of your own personal safety and protection. No one deserves to be physically harmed, or should have to take it.
 
Avgirl said:
It wouldn't have been funny, and I would imagine he was deadheading.
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You would imagine wrong.

Mostly guys who deadhead somewhere don't have their spouse pick them up when they get there, unless they are deadheading to base. And it's been a long, long time since MCI has been an American/TWA base.
 
BobDDuck said:
You would imagine wrong.

Mostly guys who deadhead somewhere don't have their spouse pick them up when they get there, unless they are deadheading to base. And it's been a long, long time since MCI has been an American/TWA base.
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Doesn't Republic have a crew base there?
 
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