AMR Seeks Pilot Concessions........Again

If it were possible anyone who would vote yes to this would be fired or fired at!! I just wish that all pilots could unite and prove that they are the back bone of anything that flies. Its hard run an airtransport business without us. If whats outlined happens at AA this career as a pilot is over for the ones wanting to fly 121.
 
jtrain609 said:
This is proposal is worse than my contract at a regional?

Is this a proposal to the bankruptcy judge or a proposal to the pilots in order to negate the need to go to the bankruptcy judge?
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It's the opening proposal to the Allied Pilots Association pursuant to 10 USC 1113. The parties will now...negotiate.
 
But wait! Think of the bonus's that management will get for coming up with such an awesome plan!
"Happy days are here again!" Woot!
 
Ugh. Sounds like next year may be my 5th straight on new-hire F/O pay. Perhaps waiting until 30 to pursue a career wasn't too wise. Anybody got the number to that truck driving school?
 
Autothrust Blue said:
No words, other than:

If you are APA: vote NO. Make them prove that they "need" these changes in court. This isn't a contract offer, it's an insult.

Massively-off-thread:

Two points:
(1) It's not a number. It's preferential hiring. Some of us know the difference.
(2) Your tactical approach is, shall we say, tactless.
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I apologize for not knowing the exact language of every regional / major's "agreement".

Also, I fail to see how this is "massively off-thread". People were jumping ship from their current regional to go get on at eagle before that deadline primarily just to take advantage of the newly announced agreement. Hence, pointing out to that other things should be taken into consideration when jumping ship at one's current job.
 
ClearedToThe said:
I apologize for not knowing the exact language of every regional / major's "agreement".

Also, I fail to see how this is "massively off-thread". People were jumping ship from their current regional to go get on at eagle before that deadline primarily just to take advantage of the newly announced agreement. Hence, pointing out to that other things should be taken into consideration when jumping ship at one's current job.
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Yes, many fell for the carrot of the the "guaranteed" preferential interview at AA. :rolleyes:
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Well, the bankruptcy process is going to screw over some more pilots, unfortunately. The term sheet from AMR management is absolutely horrendous. Some of the "highlights":

  • 88-seat airplanes outsourced, and no longer limited to Eagle
  • No minimum monthly guarantee for lineholders (yes, seriously)
  • Sick time only paid at 60% if you call in sick more than twice in a year, and you need a note from the doc
  • Elimination of the STL base protections for the TWA pilots (as if they weren't screwed enough already)
  • Pref bid system (presumably with little union control)
You can read the full term sheet here: http://www.restructuringamr.com/documents/APA%20Term%20Sheet%20Source%20Document_v10_FINAL_C LEAN.pdf
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Can this be posted on the door of every flight school?
 
block30 said:
Can this be posted on the door of every flight school?
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Wouldn't do much.

Whenever there are problems at "legacy" carriers, there's a certain group of people that figure they're #uptownproblems and that it won't ever affect them because they want to go to "ShinyCarrier2012" anyway.

I sees it. I sees it a lot.
 
CzechAirman said:
The MANY posts here and on other forums from people looking to go there just for the "guarantee".
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So you have no facts to back up your post. OK here is some facts for you: 1)It is not a "guaranteed preferential interview" it is a "guaranteed job" no interview. 2)The number of applications did go up a little but the quality of applications stayed about the same meaning the kind of people coming to Eagle before and after were the same.
 
On the bright side this looks like the absolute worse case scenario. I think AMR management knows there is no way they get all of their proposal approved and APA or the judge will meet somewhere in the middle.

60% sick pay and no minimum monthly guarantee surely won't make the final IMO.
As far as scope looks like management just took the most lenient part of each major's scope contract and mixed them into their proposal(Airways 88 seat scope +1 etc.) At least the 120 seat scope fear mongering can be put to rest for now. I think it'll end at 76 seats to match Delta.

Just like UNICAL's management opening proposal several months ago this horrendous offer appears to be just a negotiating tactic.
 
Trip7 said:
On the bright side this looks like the absolute worse case scenario. I think AMR management knows there is no way they get all of their proposal approved and APA or the judge will meet somewhere in the middle.

60% sick pay and no minimum monthly guarantee surely won't make the final IMO.
As far as scope looks like management just took the most lenient part of each major's scope contract and mixed them into their proposal(Airways 88 seat scope +1 etc.) At least the 120 seat scope fear mongering can be put to rest for now. I think it'll end at 76 seats to match Delta.

Just like UNICAL's management opening proposal several months ago this horrendous offer appears to be just a negotiating tactic.
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There is a bright side?
 
Trip7, the problem is that unions are always in a horrible position in these situations because of the way that the bankruptcy code is currently structured. Judges don't engage in negotiations, so if they decide to grant an 1113(c) motion, then it basically means that the company can just impose its term sheet. The judge isn't going to pick and choose items here and there from both sides proposals. He's just going to decide if the company needs concessions to restructure and protect the creditors. If he thinks they do, then he grants the motion, and AMR imposes. Negotiations will certainly happen between the union and the company, because the law requires it, but the outcome of those negotiations is usually something pretty damned bad. Yes, the most glaring examples will probably disappear (no min guarantee, for example), but I would be surprised if they don't get their scope concessions and pay banding in the end. And that's bad news. Especially the scope.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Trip7, the problem is that unions are always in a horrible position in these situations because of the way that the bankruptcy code is currently structured. Judges don't engage in negotiations, so if they decide to grant an 1113(c) motion, then it basically means that the company can just impose its term sheet. The judge isn't going to pick and choose items here and there from both sides proposals. He's just going to decide if the company needs concessions to restructure and protect the creditors. If he thinks they do, then he grants the motion, and AMR imposes. Negotiations will certainly happen between the union and the company, because the law requires it, but the outcome of those negotiations is usually something pretty damned bad. Yes, the most glaring examples will probably disappear (no min guarantee, for example), but I would be surprised if they don't get their scope concessions and pay banding in the end. And that's bad news. Especially the scope.
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I was talking to the me rep today and he seem to think AMR put some stuff in there so they can then said to the judge, look we are trying it is those pilots that don't want to make it work. I don't think AMR thinks they can get the no min guarantee or the whole 60% pay for sick calls. But I do think they are going to get PBS and most of the scope. Everything I am hearing is APA is ok with the pay banding.
 
kellwolf said:
The 60% sick thing is just ludicrous. If you're sick, you're sick. It's a benefit, and you should be able to use it.
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I'm thinking this has to do with the 20 year guys who have like 6mo worth of sick time and the company knows they fully plan to use it all
 
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