AMR Seeks Pilot Concessions........Again

Gonzo said:
It all depends on how much of the A-fund they get. Talking to a 737 CA, he said if they don't get anything out of the A-fund then any CA over 60 can't make the money back up. For some guys on the 73 and 80 it is even worse and it sounds like anyone over 55 doesn't have the time left to make up the money.
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If this is true, then there should be a flood of retirements coming out of AA soon.

I think I read somewhere that 50% of AAs current pilots were over 55.
 
Gonzo said:
It all depends on how much of the A-fund they get. Talking to a 737 CA, he said if they don't get anything out of the A-fund then any CA over 60 can't make the money back up. For some guys on the 73 and 80 it is even worse and it sounds like anyone over 55 doesn't have the time left to make up the money.
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We called those "Dead Zoners" at Delta.
 
USMCmech said:
If this is true, then there should be a flood of retirements coming out of AA soon.

I think I read somewhere that 50% of AAs current pilots were over 55.
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I was in the jumpseat the other day and the CA was 59, the FO 51. THe CA said he is retiring next year because that is what he had planned on - Nothing can stop that. He said the majority of folks he knows are bailing quick.
 
I had a phone interview with Eagle March 2011. Thought about going there, but changed my mind after talking with the recruiter. The recruiter presented himself as a very very rude and cocky person.....
 
Nick said:
Because labor is nowhere near 30% of their costs, so 30% high is like 3% greater total costs, and the loss of money is a lot more than 3%.

They could eliminate labor entirely and be donated a group of robots at no cost that work for free on solar power and then the might be competitive.

That's exaggerated a bit, but even if they cut the labor cost back by the 30%, they've still got money issues. Might as well cut back labor as little as possible so you can still have a somewhat productive workforce in a business where customer service matters.
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AMR's labor cost was 31% of revenue last year. Hardly insignificant.
 
ClearedToThe said:
AMR's labor cost was 31% of revenue last year. Hardly insignificant.
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My cost of labor last year was 35% of revenue. Still pulled a 3o% margin. Labor is a huge expense, but also not something you want to pay too little for (as in, have the wrong people). Avg for Ultra-sound techs around here is about $35 per hour with bene's. I have two - one is paid $50, the other $58 plus benes. And they generate positive revenue. Point is, labor is expensive, but screwing with labor is more expensive. Of course, I pay them well so I can treat them like motor oil.
 
WacoFan said:
My cost of labor last year was 35% of revenue. Still pulled a 3o% margin. Labor is a huge expense, but also not something you want to pay too little for (as in, have the wrong people). Avg for Ultra-sound techs around here is about $35 per hour with bene's. I have two - one is paid $50, the other $58 plus benes. And they generate positive revenue. Point is, labor is expensive, but screwing with labor is more expensive. Of course, I pay them well so I can treat them like motor oil.
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If you had just left off the last sentence, that might have been the nicest post you'd ever made. :)
 
ATN_Pilot said:
If you had just left off the last sentence, that might have been the nicest post you'd ever made. :)
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No! What good is paying them if I can't abuse them. Usually they call me "Captain Redbone" (from my favorite show, Big Shrimpin) but also have been called Scrooge, and Ike (as in Ike Turner).

To fully flesh out the motor-oil comment - they understand that they are a commodity. They understand that I AM a commodity. Every month I share certain financial results of the business with them so that all the employees are on the same page. They understand that if the numbers suck we need to trim some fat. But, they also like to be kept informed - it gives them a sense of empowerment - and it also facilitates the free-flow of ideas UP the chain and not just down the chain. Most of their ideas are crap - just like most ideas from me or the doctors - but it is the few that are good that you can make a business out of - so if they aren't bringing me at least one new idea apiece per week, I get on them - even if it is bad I want to hear new ideas from them. Additionally, I have a rubber chicken with a Groucho mustache that squawks when you squeeze him. I implemented this as the Dumb Ass of the Day Award and it can go to anyone - a surgeon, me, or any employee that does something that is dumb-assed on a given day. We take a picture even and circulate via email. It is important to get employees liking success and such...but also important that you break down fear of "Effing up" and being afraid to try something new and failing (except for the most egregious things). BUT, they all understand that they (and me) are commodities...like motor oil - the numbers have to work. When I made that post it occurred to me that some of you may not have a boss as awesome as I...so I'm telling you - whether you are cleaning puke out of an airplane or Frank Lorenzo - you're a commodity and someone is judging you and most likely with math. Keep that in mind and always measure and be able to communicate your impact.
 
"Every month I share certain financial results of the business with them so that all the employees are on the same page"

Would you lie to them to line your pockets? Airline management would and does regularly. This is why unions are such a necessity in the airline biz.
 
DE727UPS said:
"Every month I share certain financial results of the business with them so that all the employees are on the same page"

Would you lie to them to line your pockets? Airline management would and does regularly. This is why unions are such a necessity in the airline biz.
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No - lying defeats the purpose of my management style. It doesn't foster the environment and attitudes that I want.

And, with all due respect to you and ATN and the other union members...

With all the lying that occurs from airline management (and airlines are not unique in this, happens in other industries as well) - well, it doesn't seem as if unions have stopped it much. The profession has degraded over the last 30 years. Now, a valid argument could be made that "without the unions it would be much worse", and that quite potentially is correct. What are unions doing to address the core issue though (and to me the "core issue" is lying management - AMR lined their pockets with bonuses etc while the employees took the shaft...and the employees are still going to get creamed)? This is where I said a long time ago, to disagreement from union people, that ALPA/APA/etc need to "market better". People in the US generally don't like liars - they will avoid them. Many will pay higher prices to avoid them (truly). Why hasn't APA taken out a full-page ad in USA Today listing the amount the ee's have already given up, how much management has taken in that time, and how the proposed austerity measures will kill guys going forward...AFTER the ee's made the concessions? This can't be a one-time deal either - it has to be a concerted effort that is ongoing - good marketing plans take time to get traction. Seriously, what's been done in the past hasn't gotten desired results, perhaps it's time to do something different. I could sell anything though - I could make the US go completely "green" just by changing how it's marketed to the public. The airline employees could get people on their side by simply changing the dynamics of the conversation with the public.
 
There are some folks camped out in a park in New York that have been trying to tell folks about those lies, but a lot of people aren't interested in listening to what they have to say.

Or is that just bad marketing?
 
You know, if the people camped out had a detailed plan of action, then they might be heard a little better. You can't just protest because you can. You have to have a statement to make...If you want to be heard, you have to tell the public what your plan is.
 
jtrain609 said:
There are some folks camped out in a park in New York that have been trying to tell folks about those lies, but a lot of people aren't interested in listening to what they have to say.

Or is that just bad marketing?
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LOL! Are you seriously comparing the drug-addicted/sexual-abusing/shiftless-aimless idiots of occupy Wall Street to airline pilots? LOL. You make my broken ribs hurt from laughing. The occupy idiots had no real plan, no cohesion around a set of policy, absolutely no direction other than "let's just protest and be heard...because we have no jobs anyway, and their comportment has led them to not be taken seriously by even some of the most ardent initial supporters.

So...yes - bad marketing, by idiots.
 
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