Amerijet On Strike!

nbv4 said:
If Amerijet calls my company up and says "Hey whats up we have a bunch of freight sitting on the ramp here that can't be flown by us, could you send one of your planes over here to deliver it for us?", as long as the price is right, they're going to say "Sure thing!" They aren't going to give a crap about who is striking. I have a hard time believing any company would turn down quite a large bit of business (especially in this industry) over something silly as this unwritten notion that no one should do business with a company being struck against.

So if my company takes the bid I have two choices. I either do the flying and be put on the scab list which ends my career, or I quit/get fired and spend the rest of the next 5 years on unemployment. It's lose/lose. I don't even know who these Amerijet people even are, but they're causing me to lose my job. For all I know they could be striking over not getting a new snack machine in their break room or something. Is there anyone out there who thinks this is fair?
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It's not your company's job to turn down the buisiness. It's YOUR job to not fly it.

Management doesn't tend to like it, but they accept it. And it's not a lose lose situation. But you sure do lose if you scab.

You don't have to quit to not fly the freight. You just say you aren't going to do it and they can call someone else. If the pilots stick together, your company isn't going to fire their whole pilot group for something so relatively trivial.
 
mpenguin1 said:
If I was CEO of a company, I would not want my employees walking a picket line for another company while in company uniform, sends the wrong message.

Nothing wrong with pilots out of uniform with a "Support Amerijet" picket sign.
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What kind of wrong message does it send?

Throughout the history of unionized aviation, pilots support eachother by walking the line in uniform. It shows solidarity across companies for the pilot groups.
 
ppragman said:
No no, it makes perfect sense as far as I can see, you don't want your employees (or even your Union Members) to be seen as having a part in something which they are not directly involved. The media is pretty dumb and can have the tendency to screw up some of the important facts. Imagine if this was the headline, "AIRTRAN PILOTS STRIKE IN SOLIDARITY!!!!" Stock prices drop at that kind of information, which in turn may damage your ability to make ends meat. Just my $1.05 (Amurcah!)
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I don't see how it makes sense.


Any time there is a strike you see pilots from other companies in their uniforms on the picket lines. I am not away of a SINGLE instance where that has been taken so grossly wrong as you imply. This is NOT a new thing and airtran is the ONLY company where the pilots can't do it. It's not like no other pilots are out there. It's a single airline's pilots that have to remove their wings.


ATN_Pilot, is there any talk of including a provision in a potential TA to bring this ability back? Even at peanuckle we can wear our full uniforms.
 
Baradium said:
I don't see how it makes sense.


Any time there is a strike you see pilots from other companies in their uniforms on the picket lines. I am not away of a SINGLE instance where that has been taken so grossly wrong as you imply. This is NOT a new thing and airtran is the ONLY company where the pilots can't do it. It's not like no other pilots are out there. It's a single airline's pilots that have to remove their wings.


ATN_Pilot, is there any talk of including a provision in a potential TA to bring this ability back? Even at peanuckle we can wear our full uniforms.
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I was unaware of that, I thought it was standard practice not to allow a people not involved in the strike not to be identified as employees of an unrelated company. I'm surprised.
 
ppragman said:
I was unaware of that, I thought it was standard practice not to allow a people not involved in the strike not to be identified as employees of an unrelated company. I'm surprised.
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I need to add a disclaimer, they are the only pilot group I'm *aware of* that can't be in uniform. I don't know of any other union company with that requirement.

It's a way to show solidarity among pilot groups, and it sends a strong message as well as helps let the picketing pilots know they aren't alone.

The airtran pilots will still be in uniform, but they have to remove their wings and hat pins that have the company insignia on them.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
hmmm...lets see...Your information is outdated, inaccurate, and your a newb. Most likely APC didn't publish your "info" because they fact checked it and it was BS.
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Well, Bandit, it is obvious that you are I are possibly from the same "family" and you still have on your rose colored glasses. Unfortunately, you must be one of the other scabs that will be flying those Amerijet flights with the Chief Pilot. APC DID post my information - you misread what I stated. Maybe you should read it again. Anyway, this is not the forum for us to be arguing about Kalitta's abuse of their pilots. This is about supporting the Amerijet guys and the fact that Kalitta Charters II has enough disrespect for what they stand for to even ASK their pilots to cross that line. The driving force in the Kalitta family is and always will be the almighty dollar - NOT THE PEOPLE BEHIND THAT MONEY. They saw nothing but dollar signs before their eyes when the call came in to fly that freight out of Miami. They did not see - nor did they care - about the men and women down there on that picket line fighting for BASIC human dignities. Believe what you will people. I may be a "newbie" to this forum but I am NOT a newbie to the workings of the Kalitta organization.

Bottom line here folks - NO PILOT should be even considering crossing that line. None. Ever. The fact that K2 has found an entire crew to man that 727 they want to send to Miami is disgusting and any one involved in that organization - you included Bandit because I suspect you are - should be livid. I know I am. KEEP IN MIND - WHETHER THEY SEND THAT PLANE OR NOT - THEY FOUND CREW MEMBERS TO AGREE TO TAKE IT!! The Kalitta Air pilots - WHO ARE IN SUPPORT of Amerijet - should find out who these guys are.
 
Baradium said:
It's not your company's job to turn down the buisiness. It's YOUR job to not fly it.

Management doesn't tend to like it, but they accept it. And it's not a lose lose situation. But you sure do lose if you scab.

You don't have to quit to not fly the freight. You just say you aren't going to do it and they can call someone else. If the pilots stick together, your company isn't going to fire their whole pilot group for something so relatively trivial.
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The problem I have is that the term "scab" has been so twisted. Doing contract work for a company who is being struck against is not scabbing. It may be related to scabbing, but it's not scabbing. According to wikipedia, the definition of a scab is: "individuals who are not employed by the company prior to the trade union dispute, but rather hired prior to or during the strike to keep production or services going."

If you're aren't employed by the company, you aren't a scab. If you want to go the extra mile and not do the flight to show solidarity, then you can sure can, but it shouldn't be something that causes you to be considered a scab.

The whole reason scabbing is bad is because it basically demonstrates to the company that their labor practices which are being struck against are only not good enough for the people striking. It proves to the company that they can get along fine with their labor practices by just finding new people.

The point of a strike is not to stop the company from doing business, it's to stop the company from engaging in the unfair labor practices. As long as Amerijet planes aren't flown by underpaid pilots and without bathrooms, etc. then the strike is going successfully. The fact that Amerijet cargo is being delivered by pilots who are being treated fairly (albeit by other companies) should be seen as a good thing, not as a bad thing.

You could argue that by flying Amerijet cargo, you're 'helping' Amerijet, which hurts the pilots, but thats not really true either. Like I said in my previous post, Amerijet having other companies fly their cargo is causing them to hemorrhage money. As of right now, it would be a hell of a lot cheaper for them to give in to the pilots, rather than to continue subcontracting their flying to other companies. If for some reason they were making as much money contracting to other companies (very unlikely), then they would have grounded their whole fleet a long time ago and became a just cargo broker.

Whether that cargo gets delivered or not, it doesn't matter much. Its a small drop in the bucket. I'm not going to lose my job over it, thats for sure. And no that doesn't make me a scab.
 
nbv4 said:
The problem I have is that the term "scab" has been so twisted. Doing contract work for a company who is being struck against is not scabbing.
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If you fly AMJ freight, you are a scab.

Make no bones about it.
 
Labor Day Rally

Teamster Local 769 is holding a Rally on Monday from 12-2 in support of the AMJ strike:

http://scabvision.ning.com/

There is a link to the flyer on there. If a mod could put the image up, that'd be cool too. I just don't know how to do it.



And the scab names are published on there too.
 
ppragman said:
I was unaware of that, I thought it was standard practice not to allow a people not involved in the strike not to be identified as employees of an unrelated company. I'm surprised.
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Often times you'll see the other company's pilots hold signs while walking the line that say something like "The pilots of X Airlines support this Strike." As was said da Tranny is the ONLY company I know of that has a MOU or verbiage in their contract that prohibits wearing identifying marks while walking the line for another company (or dropping your family off at the circus).
 
Re: Labor Day Rally

Umm.. nbv4 my man.. if a company's purpose is to move freight every box that gets to its final destination is time longer that the company can endure the strike.

Lets say it costs Amerijet $35 to move a package from Miami to it's destination using it's own planes, crews and facilities. They charge the customer $40. But to charter another company to do it brings the costs up to $45. They are losing $5 on the transaction but they're still getting the $40 the customer paid them, they're still giving the impression they're in business as usual, etc.

Now, if those crews on that charter didn't fly struck cargo that package never arrived they don't have to pay $45 to charter it BUT ->

1) They lose $40, customer demands refund.
2) They lose $X, customer's time sensitive freight spoils and customer demands damages
3) Customer is ANGRY. Customer goes to different company.

In a strike if a company can not keep up the APPEARANCES of doing business as normal then they lose real quick as no new customers will come in. Companies are like sharks, if they stop moving they die. If money stops coming in, they die.

This is a pilot strike, that means that ANY PILOT that helps that cargo get to its destination is scabbing as sure as if he accepted a new hire class right now.
 
BobDDuck said:
Often times you'll see the other company's pilots hold signs while walking the line that say something like "The pilots of X Airlines support this Strike." As was said da Tranny is the ONLY company I know of that has a MOU or verbiage in their contract that prohibits wearing identifying marks while walking the line for another company (or dropping your family off at the circus).
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Would Tranny pilots be able to put "Air Tran" on any signs? Is it only the airline logos/official insignias that are not allowed? Anyone know?


How awesome it would be for 1,000's of pilots to decend on this craphole of a company and show some solidarity. Good job to all for the support shown so far, especially other unions and pilot groups. Hats off to all.
 
pullup said:
Would Tranny pilots be able to put "Air Tran" on any signs? Is it only the airline logos/official insignias that are not allowed? Anyone know?


How awesome it would be for 1,000's of pilots to decend on this craphole of a company and show some solidarity. Good job to all for the support shown so far, especially other unions and pilot groups. Hats off to all.
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Doubt it. Pretty sure they're restricted from using any identifying logos, marks, or trademarked phrases (such as the company's name).

It would be damn awesome.
 
Keep in mind that the strikers we don't support today are the same strikers that will not support you during your time of need.

I think if we all stuck together after 9/11's "LowerPilotCostsaPalooza" we'd be in a much better position.
 
nbv4 said:
The problem I have is that the term "scab" has been so twisted. Doing contract work for a company who is being struck against is not scabbing. It may be related to scabbing, but it's not scabbing. According to wikipedia, the definition of a scab is: "individuals who are not employed by the company prior to the trade union dispute, but rather hired prior to or during the strike to keep production or services going."

If you're aren't employed by the company, you aren't a scab. If you want to go the extra mile and not do the flight to show solidarity, then you can sure can, but it shouldn't be something that causes you to be considered a scab.

The whole reason scabbing is bad is because it basically demonstrates to the company that their labor practices which are being struck against are only not good enough for the people striking. It proves to the company that they can get along fine with their labor practices by just finding new people.

The point of a strike is not to stop the company from doing business, it's to stop the company from engaging in the unfair labor practices. As long as Amerijet planes aren't flown by underpaid pilots and without bathrooms, etc. then the strike is going successfully. The fact that Amerijet cargo is being delivered by pilots who are being treated fairly (albeit by other companies) should be seen as a good thing, not as a bad thing.

You could argue that by flying Amerijet cargo, you're 'helping' Amerijet, which hurts the pilots, but thats not really true either. Like I said in my previous post, Amerijet having other companies fly their cargo is causing them to hemorrhage money. As of right now, it would be a hell of a lot cheaper for them to give in to the pilots, rather than to continue subcontracting their flying to other companies. If for some reason they were making as much money contracting to other companies (very unlikely), then they would have grounded their whole fleet a long time ago and became a just cargo broker.

Whether that cargo gets delivered or not, it doesn't matter much. Its a small drop in the bucket. I'm not going to lose my job over it, thats for sure. And no that doesn't make me a scab.
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I don't even know where to begin with this one.


Doing contract work for a company being struck meets your own definition of scabbing.


The purpose of a strike IS to stop the company from doing buisiness.


It makes a BIG difference whether the cargo gets delivered or not. And whether or not you scab now, it sounds like you are determined to be one some day.
 
ppragman said:
Interesting.
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Kalitta Charters II management, including myself, Doug Kalitta, Chief Pilot Ken Zamary and GM Colin Handlon agreed that it was not in the best interest of our crewmembers and company to fly the Amerijet freight. We have not flown, nor do we have plans to fly for Amerijet.

So, before you post anything you need to get your facts straight.

Regards,
Randy Kania
Director of Operations
Kalitta Charters II LLC.
 
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