American Airlines may cut up to 15,000 jobs

subpilot said:
Personally
Personally, I would rather see the company fail or, better yet, be bought/merged by another legacy than to have this proposed contract applied to a legacy. This is class warfare and we have to stand up for our livelyhood.
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That is the way our system is setup. It is garbage. "Capitalism" LOL
 
If AMR gets the cuts they're looking for, within a year AMR will report record profits. There will be no money on the table for restoration of wages and benefits. Same thing happened at my airline. Unforunately, some of the "powers that be" think of our (still at) barely above post-bankruptcy compensation is the "new standard" and if we are able to eek a few percent out of the company during contract negotiations, it's a massive win.

The whole process left me very, very bitter about the bankruptcy process and union leadership that can be "milquetoast" when it comes to fighting the fight.

If these cuts are truly necessary to right the ship, might as well shut 'er down because all the cuts in the world aren't going to rescue employee morale or buttress a failing business plan.

It's like a strip club being on fire and the manager yelling, "Girls! Shirts OFF! Shirts OFF! We've got to save the building." Whuteva.
 
mooneyguy said:
Going after the pension as I figured they would, and 88 seat "commuters" up to 114,500mtow. up to 255 aircraft or 50% of mainline whichever is greater.

Another interesting comment in the apa term source page. "All commuter aircraft will now operate as owned"
The proposed pay band for AA starts at +88 seat aircraft. Appears a single list(heard that rumor a few times)is not in the future plans

Guess we have 3-4 weeks to wait to hear what will happen at eagle.
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Maverick, do you still have that number for the truck driving school?
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Doug Taylor said:
If AMR gets the cuts they're looking for, within a year AMR will report record profits. There will be no money on the table for restoration of wages and benefits. Same thing happened at my airline. Unforunately, some of the "powers that be" think of our (still at) barely above post-bankruptcy compensation is the "new standard" and if we are able to eek a few percent out of the company during contract negotiations, it's a massive win.

The whole process left me very, very bitter about the bankruptcy process and union leadership that can be "milquetoast" when it comes to fighting the fight.

If these cuts are truly necessary to right the ship, might as well shut 'er down because all the cuts in the world aren't going to rescue employee morale or buttress a failing business plan.

It's like a strip club being on fire and the manager yelling, "Girls! Shirts OFF! Shirts OFF! We've got to save the building." Whuteva.
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Not to mention the cycle will start over. In order to remain competitive, Delta/US Air/United/SWA/jetBlue/Virgin America/Spirit/NewStartUpAirline2013 will have to do restructuring to compete with the new, leaner, suckier AMR. AMR will report record profits, the other carriers will either have slim profit margins or report a loss because they had to slash ticket prices to compete. With the lower profit margins, they'll come to the employees with their hat in their hand (again) and say "We need help to remain competitive." And the race to the bottom continues. Oddly, not led by a regional....
 
I would be curious to see how similar routes on other countries airlines (that arent subsidised by their governments) are charge/make profit/pay pilots compared to ours.
 
kellwolf said:
Not to mention the cycle will start over. In order to remain competitive, Delta/US Air/United/SWA/jetBlue/Virgin America/Spirit/NewStartUpAirline2013 will have to do restructuring to compete with the new, leaner, suckier AMR. AMR will report record profits, the other carriers will either have slim profit margins or report a loss because they had to slash ticket prices to compete. With the lower profit margins, they'll come to the employees with their hat in their hand (again) and say "We need help to remain competitive." And the race to the bottom continues. Oddly, not led by a regional....
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That is exactly what will happen. As an industry, we must stop this now! I have faith in the APA that they will not participate in this attack on our profession. The big question will be "what will the judge do?"
 
subpilot said:
That is exactly what will happen. As an industry, we must stop this now! I have faith in the APA that they will not participate in this attack on our profession. The big question will be "what will the judge do?"
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They will probably just roll over and take it in the rear like the other unions have in the past.
 
mojo6911 said:
They will probably just roll over and take it in the rear like the other unions have in the past.
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Read up on the APA. If there was ever a group of pilots that will go down fighting it will be APA. They will end up taking it in the rear but not without a fight and my guess is they will make the judge give it to them.
 
mojo6911 said:
They will probably just roll over and take it in the rear like the other unions have in the past.
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Maybe, but if any union in the profession has a scorched earth mentality, it's APA. These are the guys that took their ball and formed a new union because they didn't get the people elected they wanted elected to ALPA. The big question is, are they gonna be like the old grandpas that complain about the government and never do anything or the old grandpas that beat people with their canes for stepping on their lawn....

Edit: Nice to see Gonzo and I are on the same page at nearly EXACTLY the same time. :)
 
Gonzo said:
Read up on the APA. If there was ever a group of pilots that will go down fighting it will be APA. They will end up taking it in the rear but not without a fight and my guess is they will make the judge give it to them.
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They also took huge pay cuts a few years ago.
 
mojo6911 said:
They also took huge pay cuts a few years ago.
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They were given false promises and then backstabbed by management who gave themselves massive bonuses off the backs of the unions. They learned their lesson and have pretty much vowed to never give another inch to management. There is a saying for this:
"Fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, shame on me!"
 
I believe the saying goes...

Theres an old saying in Tennessee, I know its in texas, probably in tennessee...Fool me once, shame on, shame on You. Fool me, you cant get fooled again.
 
subpilot said:
They were given false promises and then backstabbed by management who gave themselves massive bonuses off the backs of the unions. They learned their lesson and have pretty much vowed to never give another inch to management. There is a saying for this:
"Fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, shame on me!"
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Surely, the Union had the resources at the time to see the writing on the wall. They couldn't compete with other bankrupt airlines. It was foolish of them to think this was the case.
 
mojo6911 said:
Surely, the Union had the resources at the time to see the writing on the wall. They couldn't compete with other bankrupt airlines. It was foolish of them to think this was the case.
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I'm sure they did. They also had assurances from management that those costs would be fixed in "other areas" that an NDA didn't permit them to discuss. They likely took management to be on the up and up, then the CEO and others gave themselves large bonuses for "cost cutting" agreements. The press was so bad, lots of guys wound up leaving AMR after that debacle.
 
kellwolf said:
I'm sure they did. They also had assurances from management that those costs would be fixed in "other areas" that an NDA didn't permit them to discuss. They likely took management to be on the up and up, then the CEO and others gave themselves large bonuses for "cost cutting" agreements. The press was so bad, lots of guys wound up leaving AMR after that debacle.
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Yes, but the executive bonuses aren't what bankrupted the airline. Competing with bankrupt airlines are what bankrupted them. The management bonuses are a huge slap in the face, but APA should have known that the business model was not sustainable. I assume they pay guys to know that sort of thing, but I have no idea.
 
kellwolf said:
Maybe, but if any union in the profession has a scorched earth mentality, it's APA. These are the guys that took their ball and formed a new union because they didn't get the people elected they wanted elected to ALPA. The big question is, are they gonna be like the old grandpas that complain about the government and never do anything or the old grandpas that beat people with their canes for stepping on their lawn....

Edit: Nice to see Gonzo and I are on the same page at nearly EXACTLY the same time. :)
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