Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
I just viewed his recent VN34 video on YouTube and was pleasantly surprised that he conveyed the facts without much speculation, just ending by identifying the obvious unanswered questions remaining.
Amazon Air MIA Runway Excursion
- Thread starter Sluggo
- Start date
I just viewed his recent VN34 video on YouTube and was pleasantly surprised that he conveyed the facts without much speculation, just ending by identifying the obvious unanswered questions remaining.
GypsyPilot
Mohawk Town
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Pretty consistent with the speculation.
prelim said:
"GO AROUND". Say it with me. "Goooooooo Arooooooound". Now you. Good.
GypsyPilot
Mohawk Town
And if homeboy in the left seat still isn’t listening, push the PTT and announce “GypsyAir 325, going around for unstable approach”.
I’m a big, big fan of Identify, Command, Intervene. It’s important to note that “Intervene” doesn’t (and shouldn’t) necessitate John Wayne style fighting over the controls.
I’d suggest that it very well could mean announcing the go around with tower.
Textbook interview scenario of "what would you do if the Captain doesn't want to go around from an unstable approach".
I'm also warming up to the line they teach in CRM schools at a lot of overseas carriers: "Captain, you must listen!". While it sounds a bit stuffy and is clearly made for environments where english is a second or third language for the crews, it's unusual and direct enough that it might snap you out of tunnel vision.
I'm also warming up to the line they teach in CRM schools at a lot of overseas carriers: "Captain, you must listen!". While it sounds a bit stuffy and is clearly made for environments where english is a second or third language for the crews, it's unusual and direct enough that it might snap you out of tunnel vision.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
Preflight briefing, slow down and talk about go-arounds. Say the words, captain or FO can make the call, no conversations. Heck, if a FA wants to go around, I’m going around.
My last go-around was at RUH. We were cleared for 15R. Saudi AF pilot was PF, I was PM. Late in the game PF asked if we were right or left. I called for a for a go-around. I could have answered but wanted to reinforce that GA’s shouldn’t be a big deal and be careful with second-hand clearance info.
My last go-around was at RUH. We were cleared for 15R. Saudi AF pilot was PF, I was PM. Late in the game PF asked if we were right or left. I called for a for a go-around. I could have answered but wanted to reinforce that GA’s shouldn’t be a big deal and be careful with second-hand clearance info.
bLizZuE
Calling for engine starts en français
GolfChuck
Trustworthy Source
Wind check?
Just curious if anyone thinks the omitted wind check by the controller would have made any difference?
A lot of my colleagues issue the winds every time. I am not one of those controllers, but I do issue tailwind component winds because they are required, or preemptively issue the winds when I suspect I will be asked anyway.
As a pilot of light singles, I usually find wind checks to be superfluous. Unless the situation is such that the surface winds are drastically different than at pattern altitude.
Just curious if anyone thinks the omitted wind check by the controller would have made any difference?
A lot of my colleagues issue the winds every time. I am not one of those controllers, but I do issue tailwind component winds because they are required, or preemptively issue the winds when I suspect I will be asked anyway.
As a pilot of light singles, I usually find wind checks to be superfluous. Unless the situation is such that the surface winds are drastically different than at pattern altitude.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Hahaha, no. This guy was clearly landing even if it harelipped everybody on Bear Creek.
Obviously if there's a front moving through and winds are changing rapidly, it's nice to get an update, but while I do think it's good practice (and I'm assuming technically required) to give the winds when giving a landing clearance, there are uh signs that this was going to happen, regardless.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
No.
It actually makes me mad that the controller is even being considered in the equation. That airplane was doomed to crash minutes before it crossed the threshold. They were so behind the airplane and so freaking unstable; wind was the least of their worries. Airplanes landed right before they did, and airplanes were stacked up to land right behind them. IMHO it is absolutely germane to the crash.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
One of my favorite movie characters.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
I wish *I* had a cowboy hat hidden in a safe for when the CRM-114 spells "Purity of Essence".
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
I never get sick of Dr. Strangelove or Failsafe.
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
The winds on the ATIS had a tailwind already. So while technically, sure the controller was supposed to issue them, the lack thereof played absolutely 0 part in this.
GolfChuck
Trustworthy Source
Yeah I know the rule. I was really just asking for pilots opinions, I already have mine. Sucks that controller is gonna get dinged for that probably.
My theory is rather than learn the rules, most tower controllers just issue the winds every time as a way to cover their ars
But did they have the ATIS? The FAA, probably.
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
The way I see it, if this flight was to a non-towered airport -> a wind check wasn't going to make a difference. It was unstable.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
That's on the crew if they didn't.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
I mean I’m sure we all have lots of opinions, and its maybe a useful discussion, yet mostly irrelevant to this incident. I will normally ask for a wind check if 1) we have some big wind add to Vref and it seems the ATIS that led to that is no longer accurate (especially if short runway), 2) the winds seem far worse/gustier than advertised, 3) I’m sad and want to hear your voice. FWIW it sometimes/can often matter in a 121/transport cat aircraft. Conversely, I have never once asked for winds in an F/A-18/fighter type aircraft other than sitting at the hold short and the ATIS winds exceed our SOP and tower knows what’s up and calls them exactly at the limit sustained # when it is probably way more. They otherwise have no bearing on anything, other than i guess a really significant tailwind. Kinda like you mention in your GA flying, it normally doesn’t really change anything when operating at a normal large towered airport runway.
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in my series of tactical jets, only cared about gust additive for landing, and x-wind total for drag chute deployment (or not). For helos, alot
more important knowing both wind direction and strength.