Amazon Air MIA Runway Excursion
- Thread starter Sluggo
- Start date
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
I read that Air21 went from 8 pilots to over 100 in an extremely short time.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Not that it is entirely relevant since we don't have TR's or even good brakes, but maybe as a general sanity check as you mention. But the ROT you mention is exactly what we have always used in the F/A-18. 120 at the 6, 100 at the 5, 80 at the 4, and generally considered to be under control if at 60 by the 3 board. Braking as needed to intercept one of these checkpoints, and then generally moderate braking will get you the rest of the way. If you aren't 60 by the 3, its time for a G/A. Obviously once the buckets are out on transport cat airplanes, the G/A option disappears, unlike in our case in fighters.
Also holy f**** s****** that reads like a nightmare of passive PM and grossly incompetent PF. I don't care how tired you might be. Sounds like a continuous mandatory G/A starting at least by 500' (and my shop's standards), and probably as early as 1000'. Whatever the hell they thought they were doing once they actually crossed the threshold is like every no-no, crammed into one. High and fast, not configured by any reasonable altitude, still high and fast, second-guessing a G/A, not using any drag/stopping devices other than brakes. What an absolute ********show
GypsyPilot
Mohawk Town
Regarding fatigue and go arounds, I had a great sim instructor a few years ago (on the 767). When it came to the go around, he said click the go around switch and just sit on your hands until 3,000 ft.
The jet climbs out just fine with zero pilot input. The emphasis was that go arounds are not a hair on fire exercise, even if you’re brain dead from fatigue.
The jet climbs out just fine with zero pilot input. The emphasis was that go arounds are not a hair on fire exercise, even if you’re brain dead from fatigue.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Wasn’t a go around trigger what started the crash sequence of the other Amazon 767 crash?
Sometimes pilots just suck and muck up bad.
phill1174
Well-Known Member
Yep when they got the Amazon contract. Idk what the experience level was since every other reputable company was hiring like gang busters at that time also.
phill1174
Well-Known Member
YikesDCA26MA352.aspx
www.ntsb.gov
A summary of select events captured on the FDR during the final few minutes of the FDR recording is provided below. All times are referenced relative to the end of the FDR recording. Note that the CVR and FDR times have not been precisely synchronized. The times and descriptions are preliminary and subject to change.
Approximate Time to End of CVR Recording (mm:ss) Observation 06:02 A pilot called for flaps to be set to 1 degree. 04:18 The flight crew checked in with Miami tower and were cleared to
land on runway 30.02:53 A pilot called for flaps to be set to 5 degrees. 02:37 The flight crew lowered the landing gear. 02:14 A pilot called for flaps to be set to 15 degrees. 01:42 A pilot called for flaps to be set to 20 degrees, and the other pilot cautioned they were too fast. The other pilot made additional comments regarding the aircraft’s excessive speed throughout the remainder of the recording. There was not a consistent verbal response to the comments about speed. 01:23 Sounds consistent with autopilot disconnect. 01:12 Electronic “one thousand” callout. 01:04 Electronic “sink rate sink rate” callout. 00:58 Electronic “five hundred” callout. 00:57 Electronic “sink rate sink rate” callout. 00:54 Electronic “one hundred” callout. 00:50 Electronic “minimums” callout. 00:48 Electronic “too low terrain” callout. Annunciated four times. 00:41 A pilot called for flaps to be set to 30 degrees. 00:40 Electronic “forty” callout. 00:39 Electronic “too low terrain” callout. 00:36 Electronic “ten” callout. 00:31 Sounds similar to the aircraft touching down. 00:15 A pilot called for a go-around. 00:10 Sounds similar to the aircraft departing the paved surface. 00:00 The CVR recording ended.
Approximate Time to End of FDR Recording
(mm:ss)Observation 00:30 The nose and right main gear touched down at a groundspeed of 158 knots. 00:23 The brakes were applied at a groundspeed of 146 knots. 00:19 The left main gear touched down at a groundspeed of 134
knots.00:15 Brakes were released at a groundspeed of 120 knots and throttles were increased to a value consistent with go-around thrust. 00:11 The throttles were reduced to idle power and the brakes were re-applied. The groundspeed was 117 knots. The throttles remained at idle, and brakes remained applied until the end of the recording. 00:07 Recorded lateral, longitudinal, and vertical acceleration values
changed markedly; the FDR data indicated a groundspeed of 96 knots.00:00 The FDR recording ended. The final recorded groundspeed was 65 knots. There was no indication in the recorded data that speed brakes or thrust reversers were deployed.
Images are available on NTSB's Flickr
Although 5 died it might be a saving grace they didn’t get a chance to go around. If the approach was that bad the go around might’ve left a smoking hole NW of the airport. They’re lucky this happened in the U.S. Depending on the country they’d be sitting in a jail cell.