ComplexHiAv8r
Well-Known Member
So you will take him flying but not enough time to have a drink with me. I see how it is. 8)ATN_Pilot said:
ALPA vote
- Thread starter Cherokee_Cruiser
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SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
ComplexHiAv8r said:
You damned airline people always wanting to do things on weekdays! Get a normal schedule.
ComplexHiAv8r
Well-Known Member
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
I have to admit, I was very impressed with KCM which is mostly due to the work of ALPA.
B767
Well-Known Member
Mary Schiavo isn't....
And @Seggy and @ATN_Pilot, you're preaching to the choir. The thick headedness of some folks here. All they see is 2% per paycheck going bye bye, for very little in return. Then the very next sentence out of there mouth, "we have to watch what we do. The company might find out and people have been fired for less."
(Not talking anything illegal or non SOP. Mainly dumb stuff like meal breaks, etc. and they're afraid they'll get in trouble.)
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I thought you considered any airline non-ALPA, with any other union including in-house, to essentially be "non-union?"
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
MikeD said:I thought you considered any airline non-ALPA, with any other union including in-house, to essentially be "non-union?"
Pretty close!
higney85
Property of Scheduling
Aeromedical alone is worth 2%. The whole thing is "job insurance". Not expensive when you look at the liability aspect. Whether it's your job (scope), being able to work (aeromedical), or contractual provisions impacting daily life (QOL), EFA for negotiations, or a disiplinary piece, it's easy. Sure, nobody wants to see 1.9% of their pay gone, but it's a tax deduction and also a job insurance policy. Alpa isn't perfect, and no Union is, but no Union at all is seriously rolling the dice. It may work well in initial growth and a positive economic climate, but in any downturn it's a catastrophe. If faced with a carpet dance, even if completely right, it can ruin your career and livelihood. Representation is huge. The 5% of "problem children" will keep their jobs, even if they shouldn't, but 95% benefit. It's good "pillow factor" at the end of the day.
As someone who has had medical issues, and also served as a rep to keep folks employed, the positives far out weigh 1.9% of wages. Heck, for most the first contract is a pay bump that covers the cost plus some. Whether it's industry parity or leading the pack, it's better than hoping to get what others have. Why? there is at least some leverage when being able to function as a combined and legal group.
As someone who has had medical issues, and also served as a rep to keep folks employed, the positives far out weigh 1.9% of wages. Heck, for most the first contract is a pay bump that covers the cost plus some. Whether it's industry parity or leading the pack, it's better than hoping to get what others have. Why? there is at least some leverage when being able to function as a combined and legal group.
Wrong. We still had 1000+ vote yes on the status quo. Although the pro-alpa crowd is hopefully in the majority by now.
I took a meal break yesterday and I still have a job. I agree with your basic premise, but your hypothetical trouble from a meal break is sensationalized. Possibly only because fear of legal repercussion keeps the company in check. Non-union pilots still have basic human rights as individuals. We gotta eat too.
IMO, the waters are muddied in the pro/con union discussion at SKW partly because of sensationalism on both sides.
Let's stick to the facts and bring alpa on via reason and sense.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
I agree that sensationalism should be left out on both sides.
Let me say up front that I am a "conservatarian" who often does not agree with ALPA on national politics issues.
Having said that, to paraphrase Winston Churchill ALPA is the worst solution... except for all the others.
From a purely selfish perspective my dues are a good return on investment. About 15 years ago my company was ready to throw me under the FAA bus for something that was really their fault and ALPA had my back. While negotiations can be frustratingly slow (they are a marathon not a sprint), I enjoy a pretty good contract thanks to them.
Many advances in airline safety and crew rest can be attributed to ALPA. I remember companies trying to say a 1.5 hour cab ride, each way on an 8 hour reduced rest was "transportation local in nature". ALPA fought this for us.
Many of the problems people like to dump on ALPA- regional airlines being played off against each other, for example- are really outside ALPA's scope. After all, their job should not be picking one company over another.
Let me say up front that I am a "conservatarian" who often does not agree with ALPA on national politics issues.
Having said that, to paraphrase Winston Churchill ALPA is the worst solution... except for all the others.
From a purely selfish perspective my dues are a good return on investment. About 15 years ago my company was ready to throw me under the FAA bus for something that was really their fault and ALPA had my back. While negotiations can be frustratingly slow (they are a marathon not a sprint), I enjoy a pretty good contract thanks to them.
Many advances in airline safety and crew rest can be attributed to ALPA. I remember companies trying to say a 1.5 hour cab ride, each way on an 8 hour reduced rest was "transportation local in nature". ALPA fought this for us.
Many of the problems people like to dump on ALPA- regional airlines being played off against each other, for example- are really outside ALPA's scope. After all, their job should not be picking one company over another.
Haha true.
And if you think alpa negotiations are bad, try sapa. Total waste of time. Reminiscent of Oliver Twist.
B767
Well-Known Member
'Twas a long day yesterday and I was tired. Couldn't think of a good example. But that's all it was, an example. All too often I fly with guys that are worried about SGU black helicopters hovering over the airport with super telescopic cameras or something. They're afraid to drop the brake because the cargo door is open (manual says you can do it when the FLIGHT CREW is ready for departure - doesn't say the ground crew has to be ready
). Yes I know as humans we have basic rights. I'm not a complete dumbass. That's why I still take a water on the UAL side even though the FAs are being told not to give it to flight crew. (Haven't flown the 700 yet since they switched service and to the gallon water jugs or whatever - so we will see how that goes when I do.)
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
I'm working on flying with you, actually.
That's why I want them. It's not about pay (which, I collect more than a lot of my regional colleagues elsewhere). It's about the professional services. Legal, Aeromedical, and Professional Standards here are not so solid programs. Actually we don't even HAVE a legal program here.
(And why I'm an AOPA member at the highest level on Pilot Protection Services, incidentally - the Company's lawyer and aeromedical people will only go so far should the occasion arise.)
I gotcha. The mickey mouse games like the water issues, the brake issues in ORD (and everywhere else for that matter) and other issues are far below the professionalism we are expected to show every day. Wasn't trying to bust your chops. But I imagine every regional slob is getting that kind of harassment.'Twas a long day yesterday and I was tired. Couldn't think of a good example. But that's all it was, an example. All too often I fly with guys that are worried about SGU black helicopters hovering over the airport with super telescopic cameras or something. They're afraid to drop the brake because the cargo door is open (manual says you can do it when the FLIGHT CREW is ready for departure - doesn't say the ground crew has to be ready
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
On the other hand, the water-bottle kerfuffle is about as united as I've ever seen SKW pilots on anything.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
You guys don't get free water / water bottles on the plane?
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
We do.
There was a kerfuffle in which we were admonished to reduce our consumption; the memo was rescinded like two days after that. Onboard bottled water consumption is unlimited, and I don't care what the flight attendants say about it.
I like pizza.Haha. I bet if ALPA were to do a drive at SKW and were handing out liter water bottles instead of pizza and sandwiches, and said something along the lines of "we will work on getting crew water in the planes," they'd be voted in 100%