Alpa endorsed hour reduction plan.

And that's the part I don't get.
Clearly.

It’s as simple as this: if you are scheduling flights such that joe blow can march up to the counter and say “I want two seats on your 4 pm Hoonah flight”, the FAA holds you to a higher standard than Bubba’s fishing charters and tire repair service. The concept of a scheduled carrier vs unscheduled is much bigger on the backside than just a couple differences in pilot quals and a few ops rules-which I’m sure you’re well aware of since you were attempting to set one up.
 
Right, but while college may not make you a better pilot, it may widen your horizons enough to make you better employee. Emphasis on the "may" because there are plenty of college educated blowhards as well.

Again I think this is a dumb idea with regard to piloting skillz, but after basically going back to school I'm never ceased to be amazed by things I learn that seem totally unrelated to flying that are incredibly pertinent and things I wish I would have known before hand.

I'm all about higher education just for the sake of education, but as an employer, I've found no correlation between college and the worth of the employee. All it is is a screening mechanism so lazy HR departments can reduce their stack of applications.
 
Clearly.

It’s as simple as this: if you are scheduling flights such that joe blow can march up to the counter and say “I want two seats on your 4 pm Hoonah flight”, the FAA holds you to a higher standard than Bubba’s fishing charters and tire repair service. The concept of a scheduled carrier vs unscheduled is much bigger on the backside than just a couple differences in pilot quals and a few ops rules-which I’m sure you’re well aware of since you were attempting to set one up.

I sure am. But that's a management problem not a pilot problem. From the pilot's point of view the job is really no different scheduled to unscheduled. I've got no problems with increased oversight (and think there ought to be more) on a scheduled airline from a management perspective.
 
I sure am. But that's a management problem not a pilot problem. From the pilot's point of view the job is really no different scheduled to unscheduled. I've got no problems with increased oversight (and think there ought to be more) on a scheduled airline from a management perspective.
You get it from a management perspective but not from an ops perspective? Not trolling, but axially curious.
 
You get it from a management perspective but not from an ops perspective? Not trolling, but axially curious.

Yeah, from a pilot perspective I don't see much difference. But I recognize you are more experienced with this so (honest question no sarcasm) please enlighten me where I am wrong.
 
I think ATP mins and an FAA designee ride (not some softball company check that allows “retraining”) is a good rock bottom qual to carry pax in something like a ‘jo or a van. You have to get in the mindset the FAA has (rightly IMHO) of holding scheduled ops to a higher standard.

I also think it’s lunacy (and borderline hazardous) to teach multi turbojet V1 procedures to that same ‘jo driver a la CTP programs.

Don't know what ATP is teaching in Seminoles, but you know we used to do what you're advocating and crashed airplanes all the time, right?
 
Don't know what ATP is teaching in Seminoles, but you know we used to do what you're advocating and crashed airplanes all the time, right?
Not sure what you’re getting at? All I’m saying is that stuff taught in an ATP CTP course (which, by regulation, has to be an airplane over x gross weight) is not applicable to a PA31. Take, for example, engine failure on takeoff. Part 25 jet, past V1 you fly the engine out procedure and run the QRH before you ninja-hands anything. PA31 at gross weight, as I’m sure you know, that will get you killed. Also, the CTP stuff is going to have a very different focus from something tailored to single pilot IFR ops.
 
And that's the part I don't get. If I fly the same route over and over every day or nearly every day it's somehow requires more experience than if I fly the same airplane to a completely different airport that I have never been to everyday. It seems to me to be more difficult to fly to a new airport every day than the same one every day.

You're thinking like a pilot. Stop that. Think like an actuary. What exposes the average public to more risk on a regular basis?

.
I'm all about higher education just for the sake of education, but as an employer, I've found no correlation between college and the worth of the employee. All it is is a screening mechanism so lazy HR departments can reduce their stack of applications.

Probably they're lazy yeah, but aren't you the guy without college? I mean, realistically, the best way I've seen to screen pilots is a sim session, a tech interview, and then a "why don't we go grab a beer." After a few beers whether the guy will be a good match for your operation tends to emerge. That's hard and HR departments can be really lazy about it - that much I agree on. I don't think it should be used to exclude, but what someone studies can definitely be an indicator of who they are as a person and what they feel is important in their world, which in turn says something about how they'll fit in where they'll work.

I'll say this, the autodidact tends to be more impressive to me than the college educated guy.

No offense or anything, but as someone who's been a part of hiring and firing and as someone who's also had to manage an unmitigated HR disaster before...well...I disagree a little bit about the correlation.

Aren't you also the guy who won't hire anyone that doesn't have a Facebook account? I seem to remember that post from you at some point, so perhaps you may not be the guy to ask about proper screening mechanisms for potential employees? I dunno. It's definitely more complicated than "college go! No college bad!" But I suspect that in the long run, if you had to choose between two equally qualified individuals to operate expensive machinery you'd probably want the guy who had invested the time and effort in educating him/herself.
 
what someone studies can definitely be an indicator of who they are as a person and what they feel is important in their world, which in turn says something about how they'll fit in where they'll work.

Really, really, not true. Let's look at the average major airline hire. What is he today? About 34 years old? Maybe 32? So you're looking at what someone studied 15 years ago, based on a decision he made when he was 18 years old (and possibly based on a decision his parents made for him), to make a determination today about how they'll fit into your company? I don't know about you, but I was certainly a much different person at 32 than I was at 18, or even 25. Everyone I know was.

Aren't you also the guy who won't hire anyone that doesn't have a Facebook account?

I've hired people without Facebook accounts, but it's definitely something I find suspicious and requires additional digging. It's usually an indicator that they're either technologically inept or irrationally paranoid. The vast majority of companies now screen Facebook profiles, by the way. Hell, we even screen Facebook profiles of tenant applicants now.

But I suspect that in the long run, if you had to choose between two equally qualified individuals to operate expensive machinery you'd probably want the guy who had invested the time and effort in educating him/herself.

Faulty premise. There is no such thing as "two equally qualified individuals." There is always something that makes one more qualified than the other. The problem is that many airlines have decided that things like hours, type ratings, PIC time, etc. are less important than "tell me about a time" questions and what someone majored in twenty years ago.
 
You're thinking like a pilot. Stop that. Think like an actuary. What exposes the average public to more risk on a regular basis?

I still say from any line of thinking a unscheduled route going to different airports is the greater risk for the pilot and the public. The pilot is flying into unknown airspace, landing at an unknown airport with unknown local customs.

A scheduled route flies to the same airports over and over again so the pilot develops familiarity with the approach and the airport.

Seems to me the charter pilot and passengers are at a greater risk. From a "actuarial" perspective the public has less risk financially due to the financial requirements for economic authority for the flight which ensures the passenger will get their money back if the company goes under. That doesn't exist for the unscheduled op. So both from a operation and management perspective the passenger has much greater risk at the unscheduled op than the scheduled op.

But I'm a helicopter pilot so you'll need to give me a little leeway for being slow on the uptake......;) you may have to drag me to the answer I am missing here that may be plain as day for everyone else except those of us willing to get into an airframe that is intentionally shaking itself apart in flight.
 
Not sure what you’re getting at? All I’m saying is that stuff taught in an ATP CTP course (which, by regulation, has to be an airplane over x gross weight) is not applicable to a PA31. Take, for example, engine failure on takeoff. Part 25 jet, past V1 you fly the engine out procedure and run the QRH before you ninja-hands anything. PA31 at gross weight, as I’m sure you know, that will get you killed. Also, the CTP stuff is going to have a very different focus from something tailored to single pilot IFR ops.

Are you talking about ATP's (airline transport professionals) CTP program? Or having to go through a CTP course to do your ATP RATING in a non jet aircraft?

You'd fail your ATP ride in a light piston twin if you tried to call V1 during your briefing.
 
Are you talking about ATP's (airline transport professionals) CTP program? Or having to go through a CTP course to do your ATP RATING in a non jet aircraft?

You'd fail your ATP ride in a light piston twin if you tried to call V1 during your briefing.
Sorry, not referring specifically to ATP, but to the generic CTP courses required for a multi ATP.
You have to do a CTP course to get an ATP in a non-jet twin. Hence the scenario of a ‘jo driver having to be trained on jet procedures in a level D sim. It’s ridiculous.
 
You have to do a CTP course to get an ATP in a non-jet twin. Hence the scenario of a ‘jo driver having to be trained on jet procedures in a level D sim. It’s ridiculous.

Having the training doesn't mean you're going to fly the Chieftain like a CRJ. I'm not sure why you'd think you would.

I had to figure out how to do performance and WB for a DC-9 on the ATP written if I remember correctly. I didn't show up to work in the EMB-145 the next week and say, "oh sorry guys, aerodata wasn't on the ATP written, let's hope we don't crash today because I'm just going to do the performance calculations like the DC-9."
 
Having the training doesn't mean you're going to fly the Chieftain like a CRJ. I'm not sure why you'd think you would.

I had to figure out how to do performance and WB for a DC-9 on the ATP written if I remember correctly. I didn't show up to work in the EMB-145 the next week and say, "oh sorry guys, aerodata wasn't on the ATP written, let's hope we don't crash today because I'm just going to do the performance calculations like the DC-9."
Still stupid. Just like the outdated ATP written. But ok, you do you.

Besides, startle response makes people do funny things and it makes sense to me to train like you’re gonna fly.
 
I'm all about higher education just for the sake of education, but as an employer, I've found no correlation between college and the worth of the employee. All it is is a screening mechanism so lazy HR departments can reduce their stack of applications.

FAA tried doing the "must have ATC college degree" thing. Lasted a whole 3 years before they started taking general public again after washout rates didn't change.
 
Didn't mean to get you hung up on age....I turned 30 during my IOE and It was a kick in the nuts, but by no stretch of the imagination do I think 45 is "old", in the larger scheme of things. For people just entering the 121 world, 45 is getting up there , when you consider you have to retire by 65. I'd imagine most guys in their 40's and 50's don't want to take the QOL hit that a 20 or 30 yo is willing to take, they've mostly already been through that stage of life.
As an aside, I commend you for getting back into it. The GA sector needs more guys like you, and when you get to 121 , if that is your goal , there will be a seat i'm sure.

Appreciate the kind words, but really no plans to move on from instructing. I’m probably never going to jump through that degree hoop. And didn’t mean to sound “triggered” as they say, about the age thing. I just chuckle at folks when they truly think 40s or 50s is old.

I'm all about higher education just for the sake of education, but as an employer, I've found no correlation between college and the worth of the employee. All it is is a screening mechanism so lazy HR departments can reduce their stack of applications.

A wise old engineer once told me to remember that there’s virtually nobody who said as a kid, “I want to work as an HR professional” growing up. Not that there aren’t people who love it and do it really well, and no offense meant to anyone working in HR roles, but in many organizations there can be an undercurrent of, “I hate this job” and the HR person just wants to put in their time and go home.

I see LESS of that in Aviation than tech, but I took his advice to heart one day when as a young whippersnapper engineer I was grousing about HR.

He continued, “Many of them, if they could do your job instead, they would. In a heartbeat. They don’t have the skill set. So don’t be so hard on them. They’re just doing a job as best they know how.”

This was at a giant $100B revenue tech company who had good pay and good benefits and attracted some really good people in all departments, including HR. Smaller/weaker companies, think about who and why they’re in that job...

Works for keeping oneself sane when thinking about a LOT of people in a lot of job roles. But HR... maybe lazy, maybe not, but a lot don’t want to be there. It’s not high on the “dream job” list for many.

I mean, realistically, the best way I've seen to screen pilots is a sim session, a tech interview, and then a "why don't we go grab a beer." After a few beers whether the guy will be a good match for your operation tends to emerge.

I’d be a little leery of mixing alcohol with a job interview in any way, to be honest with you. Even if I liked the recruiter and found them friendly and personable, I’d likely graciously come along to the bar and feign being tired or otherwise figure out a way to not be drinking with a recruiter.

If someone pressed the issue or got weird about it, I’d politely tell the truth... “Too many alcoholics in my extended family, worked with too many functional alcoholics in my past work, and have an alcoholic brother in law who killed himself and his blood alcohol content was 0.28 on the autopsy table... so if you don’t mind, I’ll be drinking a Diet Coke tonight, thanks.”

I’d think with the pilot profession finally getting a better mix of gender, suggesting “Let’s go have a beer” is a good recruiting tool, could lead to serious liability issues for other reasons as well.

Not a fan. I get it. I can tell a lot about someone when they’ve had a few also, but I wouldn’t use it in my business as any sort of regular screening method. Master Caution blinking for sure, if not Warning, just reading that.
 
Having the training doesn't mean you're going to fly the Chieftain like a CRJ. I'm not sure why you'd think you would.

I had to figure out how to do performance and WB for a DC-9 on the ATP written if I remember correctly. I didn't show up to work in the EMB-145 the next week and say, "oh sorry guys, aerodata wasn't on the ATP written, let's hope we don't crash today because I'm just going to do the performance calculations like the DC-9."

Cuz primacy? A lot of these guys first real training on multi stuff is the ATP
 
I still say from any line of thinking a unscheduled route going to different airports is the greater risk for the pilot and the public. The pilot is flying into unknown airspace, landing at an unknown airport with unknown local customs.

A scheduled route flies to the same airports over and over again so the pilot develops familiarity with the approach and the airport.

Seems to me the charter pilot and passengers are at a greater risk. From a "actuarial" perspective the public has less risk financially due to the financial requirements for economic authority for the flight which ensures the passenger will get their money back if the company goes under. That doesn't exist for the unscheduled op. So both from a operation and management perspective the passenger has much greater risk at the unscheduled op than the scheduled op.

But I'm a helicopter pilot so you'll need to give me a little leeway for being slow on the uptake......;) you may have to drag me to the answer I am missing here that may be plain as day for everyone else except those of us willing to get into an airframe that is intentionally shaking itself apart in flight.

Who buys charter flights mostly statistically speaking? How much money are they worth? Which kinds of airplanes are used in scheduled operations mostly?
 
Not sure what you’re getting at? All I’m saying is that stuff taught in an ATP CTP course (which, by regulation, has to be an airplane over x gross weight) is not applicable to a PA31. Take, for example, engine failure on takeoff. Part 25 jet, past V1 you fly the engine out procedure and run the QRH before you ninja-hands anything. PA31 at gross weight, as I’m sure you know, that will get you killed. Also, the CTP stuff is going to have a very different focus from something tailored to single pilot IFR ops.
Didn’t do any of that in the CTP course, it was really basic stuff with a dash of fms thrown in. So I don’t think there is any negative training with the CTP course. That being said it was a waste of time in my opinion. I didn’t learn a lot.
 
Who buys charter flights mostly statistically speaking? How much money are they worth? Which kinds of airplanes are used in scheduled operations mostly?

People with more money than me. (Don’t tick them off.)
More than me. (Don’t tick them off.)
Whatever they want. (Don’t tick them off.)

:)

Do I pass?
 
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