ALPA and medical reform
- Thread starter MidlifeFlyer
- Start date
z987k
Well-Known Member
Kokanees are naturally occurring landlocked sockeye.
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
I thought it was beer...
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
Salmon go out, salmon come in. Never any miscommunication.
z987k
Well-Known Member
Hahaha! Although I think the Beer is named after the mountain range that is named after the fish.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockeye_salmon#Landlocked_populations
PositionAndHold
Well-Known Member
Look, I backed out of this issue because we are obviously on different sides of the issue. And based on your post history, you're not willing to listen to other views (I know, other views are stupid). I am curious however, where was ALPA's or your outrage when they extended the medical expiration rules for all classes of medical a few years ago? I'll be 40 in November. On my 39th year and 364th day, I can get a third class medical that will last five years. The FAA (not congress) extended it by two years without a peep from ALPA (that I know of). You yourself claim that people with your medical/family history are high risk under the age of 40. The FAA has been slowly extending the requirements for several years based on the sample size of the sport pilot program.
We self certify our medical readiness every day we go fly airplanes either for work or pleasure. We all know professional pilots that have flown sick or tired let alone the people we don't know about taking over the counter or prescription meds that are disqualifying.
Edit to add: Salmon, gross. Macadamia nut crusted halibut would be my last meal on death row.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Do you not understand the difference between the normal regulatory process and Congress butting in where they don't understand and don't belong?
PositionAndHold
Well-Known Member
Like deregulation was a bad move but congress banning Lorenzo from ever owning or being involved in an airline was good? Or 1500 hour rule good (for some people) bad for others. Age 65 was going to go through so accept it any way. Good or bad? Congress has been part of the regulatory procees since they established the FAA. If they weren't part of the process then ALPA/AOPA/EAA wouldn't need a PAC or lobbyists right? So which is it, congress helps or hurts only when it matter to me? So should we disband the ALPA PAC since congress shouldn't be involved?
I honestly think we agree on more things than not, which is wierd, since you've left 121 I do understand your point of view and have liked more of your posts than I thought I would. If I make NJC I'll buy. @Seggy tends to get all dramatic, maybe a Shirley Temple for him.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
PositionAndHold said:
Congress never banned Lorenzo from being involved in an airline.
Congress didn't set a 1500 hour rule. Congress left it open to the FAA to decide what the requirements should be for an ATP.
Bad. Congress should leave the aviation regulations to the FAA.
No, Congress established the FAA in order to have a regulatory body for aviation so that it was not Congress's job.
Lobbyists are great. Go lobby the FAA. Then they'll create an ARC to study the issue, the ARC will issue recommendations, the FAA will issue the proposed rule through the federal register, a public comment period will be open, the FAA will consider public comments and amend the rule as necessary, and then issue a final rule. That's how this is supposed to work. A deliberate and rational approach to regulation. Not a bunch of ignorant politicians dictating safety rules in between fundraising luncheons at Charlie Palmer.
@Seggy tends to get all dramatic, maybe a Shirley Temple for him.
That might be too strong for him. He drinks warm milk and goes to bed at 9pm ever since he got hitched.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
What about the Pilots Bill of Rights?
http://www.legal.com/aviation/54-pilot-s-bill-of-rights
I'm 99% sure Congress dictated the ATP rule bullet points. Had a top level FAA guy on my jumpseat once and even he thought the new rules were backasswards, but his hands were tied.
http://www.legal.com/aviation/54-pilot-s-bill-of-rights
I'm 99% sure Congress dictated the ATP rule bullet points. Had a top level FAA guy on my jumpseat once and even he thought the new rules were backasswards, but his hands were tied.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
I am willing to listen to other views when they are right. Your 'side' on this issue is wrong.
Why would I be outraged? The data shows that those under 40 have a VERY low risk of having an issue that can lead to pilot incapacitation.
You answered the question yourself. Let the FAA handle it.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Nope. It was an Aviation Rulemaking Committee (ARC) that created the rules. The rules are also not backasswards so I would have told that FAA guy to shut up. They should be more concerned making sure they have the right managers in place at airlines without a 'history', think Compass and Allegiant...
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
I wonder who's going to win. A 90,000 member group that is not unified and each with their own personal interests (regional vs majors), or the 600,000+ group that is AOPA+EAA that are unified behind passing this bill or rights #2.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
HAHAHAHAHAHA, oooooohhhhhh, hahahahahahahaha, that is funny right there.
First, ALPA has about 54,000 members. Secondly, ALPA has a much more powerful PAC than AOPA+EAA combined. Thirdly, this has gotten zero attention in the press outside of aviation circles. It hits mainstream media that "Congress wants to do away with Pilot Medicals", any Congress member who votes on it will be lampooned. Fourthly, AOPA+EAA is going to quickly forget about this medical issue when the FAA Reauthorization Bill comes out of Committee with a proposal to privatize the ATC System.
PositionAndHold
Well-Known Member
I'd swear I remember old guys bitching about Lorezno and how they made a law banning him from 121. The only thing I can find right now is an NTSB quote. "In 1993. After a flurry of union protest, the U.S. Department of Transportation denied Lorenzo's bid to establish the airline, saying he was unfit to fly "in accord with the public interest." Either way, dude is evil and has never been back.Congress never banned Lorenzo from being involved in an airline.
Congress didn't set a 1500 hour rule. Congress left it open to the FAA to decide what the requirements should be for an ATP.
Bad. Congress should leave the aviation regulations to the FAA.
No, Congress established the FAA in order to have a regulatory body for aviation so that it was not Congress's job.
Lobbyists are great. Go lobby the FAA. Then they'll create an ARC to study the issue, the ARC will issue recommendations, the FAA will issue the proposed rule through the federal register, a public comment period will be open, the FAA will consider public comments and amend the rule as necessary, and then issue a final rule. That's how this is supposed to work. A deliberate and rational approach to regulation. Not a bunch of ignorant politicians dictating safety rules in between fundraising luncheons at Charlie Palmer.
That might be too strong for him. He drinks warm milk and goes to bed at 9pm ever since he got hitched.
Again, if congress established the FAA why do we (ALPA/AOPA/EAA) need to lobby congress? Because that's were the money lies. Who do you think approves the heads of the FAA or the NTSB? Congress.
Congress has been intertwined in rule making since the NTSB and FAA were created. They will continue to be until some thing drastic changes.
PositionAndHold
Well-Known Member
Part of your "facts" (or opinions as every one else calls them) you stated you had a very poor family health history and that history happened to people under the age of 40. Yet now you say people under the age of 40 are very low risk? Man, it's hard to keep up.
So for future discussions the "FAA should handle it". What if they are moving to slowly on cabotage laws, should congress step in or let the "FAA Handle it". After all they're the ones responsible for our safe skies. They know best, right? Again, why does ALPA have congressional lobbyists when the FAA "should handle it"?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
ALPA is only touting the safety aspect as their primary and only reason for being against it. Non-medical pilots flying LSA have a similar success/accident rate as GA pilots with 3rd class medicals. There's no proof to show otherwise. What's your case? Besides Congress dictating medical standards? (which they aren't, by the way. AOPA+EAA have a bill that does away with that requirement if Congress chooses to pass it --- not that they (Congress) are mandating something specific for us medically speaking).
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
The DOT denied Lorenzo's request to start up a carrier called ATX. I know it well, because AirTran's #2 who I frequently sparred with, Steve Kolski, was the guy Lorenzo was using as the fake head of the airline to try to get it through. The administrative law judge denied Lorenzo's starting any new airline, because the NTSB, with the help of the IAM, had found so many maintenance corners cut at EAL during the scab days that Lorenzo was determined to be a danger to public safety.
Congress never got involved.
The FAA Administrator and the members of the NTSB are appointed by the President. The Senate rubber stamps them, because they're not high profile enough to make political hay of.
Cabotage rules do not fall under the FAA's jurisdiction. If you want to discuss these topics, then you really should figure out how your government works first.
The FAA has its job, and Congress has its job. When it comes to regulating the safety of aviation, that's the FAA's job. That's why Congress created them. Trade deals and open skies arrangements have nothing to do with the FAA's charter. That's up to the State Department and Congress. Bankruptcy laws having nothing to do with the FAA. That's up to Congress. Anti-trust enforcement has nothing to do with the FAA. That's up to the DOJ. Etc.
Learn how your government works.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
It isn't hard to keep up.
Yes, I have a pretty crummy family history of heart problems. I am doing the responsible thing and getting checked out. Not everyone does that. If you don't see a doctor, it could lead to issues you don't think you have.
If you think the FAA should handle cabotage laws then you really shouldn't be talking about why Congress should be handling changes to FAA Airman Medical Certification.