ALPA and medical reform

mshunter said:
Oh really. Then explain to me why ALPA is fighting it? Edit to add: If they had no burden of proof, they'd be silent.
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Unfortunately, there are plenty of people like you who think that you're entitled to change the law without presenting evidence that what you want to do is safe, so ALPA makes sure to speak out.
 
PositionAndHold said:
Uhhh in post #53 you give your opinions about ALPA, anti depressants and sleep apnea. No where do you state a fact.
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In that post. There is a reason WHY there have been changes. I state the facts behind them.

You talk about how you think it went but that's it.
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When the Federal Flight Surgeon tells you, to your face, WHY it has been changed and then share it on here, that is face

I'm not letting this go.
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See above.

You and @ATN_Pilot continually speak about how things are, as it is a fact. It's not, it's your opinion. You both need to learn the difference.
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We have differentiated. You haven't.

Studies, research, and papers lend themselves to being factual, yet you won't quote any of those. You just say " you're wrong" and that's it. If you have specialized experiences I would love to hear about them.
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You obviously aren't reading the same thread I am reading.

However just because you were close to a particular subject doesn't make it factual. It makes it your opinion.
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See above. I have been told directly....'this is why the FAA is making these changes'. I have shared them. You and others are to stubborn and macho to listen.

There are multiple people on this site that have experiences similar to yours.
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Not really.

Their opinions based on those experiences doesn't make it fact, it makes it thier experiences. This site, to me is more about people's experiences than any thing. That's what makes it great. You both love to talk about how correct you are without considering other people's experiences/knowledge. When you do this you lose credibility.
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I am pretty confident in my credibility on this matter.
 
DE727UPS said:
"You and @ATN_Pilot continually speak about how things are, as it is a fact. It's not, it's your opinion. "

Oh, I wondered why I was missing half the conversation.

For the sake of ALPA, I just hope neither of the Jetcareers ALPA apologists on here are in any sort of union leadership position. It makes me cringe the stuff they used to say here while being a part of "ALPA management". The way they come across does way more harm than good. Embarrassing....
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Ahhh, yes, the usual I hate Todd and Mark post from Don. :rolleyes:
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
Not at all. I'm still saying that if you are relying on an AME as your primary it's too bad but that's your choice.
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I agree with you, folks should NOT use their AMEs as their primary doctor. However, folks don't even go get their yearly check ups as they should. The FAA Flight Physical allows there to be a standard so that if your primary care doctor missed something, it will hopefully get caught and treated before you fly or if you haven't had a check up in years and you have high blood pressure, that is caught and corrected before you get in the air.

Wait. "Lot of folks don't"? Based on this discussion, I'm surprised at your comment. I thought that, for safety reasons of course, you would require everyone to have the additional (I'd say primary) layer of a primary care physician. There should be a regulation forcing you to have a primary care physician, right?
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A reasonable level of safety. The FAA knows they will not catch everything and pilot incapacitation is going to happen. It is reasonable to try to catch the big reasons for incapacitation such as heart disease by a check up every so often.


I did notice, however, the shortage of responses on the other point, that it seems to me ALPA would have more important things to concern itself with on behalf of career pilots. Tells me the accuracy of my "wedge issue impotence" observation.
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ALPA is responding because they don't want Congress to dictate to the FAA pilot medical standards. Do you REALLY think that is a good idea? REALLY?
 
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BTW, one would think that AOPA and EAA would be more concerned about the FAA Reauthorization Bill and the push in DC to privatize the ATC system which is going to be leading to user fees.

Guess they figure it is a sure thing that is going to happen!
 
@Seggy, as much as I agree with you on this issue, I do feel compelled to point out that the FAA did not want to increase the pilot retirement age, and you and Prater cheered on as Congress butted in and did it anyway, completely ignoring the FAA's role in regulation of the industry. Hopefully you now realize how wrong that was. ;)
 
ATN_Pilot said:
@Seggy, as much as I agree with you on this issue, I do feel compelled to point out that the FAA did not want to increase the pilot retirement age, and you and Prater cheered on as Congress butted in and did it anyway, completely ignoring the FAA's role in regulation of the industry. Hopefully you now realize how wrong that was. ;)
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It was going to happen anyway.

I think your point should be that folks hated when Congress meddled with it then, they should hate that Congress is meddling with it now! :)
 
Seggy said:
folks hated when Congress meddled with it then, they should hate that Congress is meddling with it now! :)
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Amen! Let the experts do their jobs. Congress doesn't know jack about flying airplanes safely. That's why they created the FAA and NTSB. Now get out of their damned way!
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Unfortunately, there are plenty of people like you who think that you're entitled to change the law without presenting evidence that what you want to do is safe, so ALPA makes sure to speak out.
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Again, I have no dog in this fight, because I don't care what happens with a 3rd class medical. But ALPA has to take a stance, and defend this issue. Which brings us to why we are discussing this. You said ALPA has no burden of proof. Seems like with your last reply, if they don't want change, they do.

And there are plenty of "people like you" that are so afraid of change, it keeps things in balance. If we all were "people like you", we'd all be running around in dad pants, with pleats, arguing on the internet.
 
Seems like you do have a dog in this fight, otherwise you wouldn't be arguing.

ALPA's taking a position does not mean that they have a burden of proof. The defense in a murder trial takes a position, but they have no burden of proof. Learn what words mean.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Seems like you do have a dog in this fight, otherwise you wouldn't be arguing.

ALPA's taking a position does not mean that they have a burden of proof. The defense in a murder trial takes a position, but they have no burden of proof. Learn what words mean.
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No, I guess you're right. We should all bow down to your superior knowledge and intellect of every subject, not just a few. You need people skills.

"Jack of all, master of none."
 
mshunter said:
No, I guess you're right. We should all bow down to your superior knowledge and intellect of every subject, not just a few. You need people skills. "Jack of all, master of none."
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So you don't have any facts to present to meet your burden of proof?

Thought so.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
One level of safety, you know, the thing the FAA pushes. Unless there is a financial reason not to (UPS crying wolf getting 117 not to apply to cargo) and now this medical issue (congress getting involved in a place they have no business being).

But hey, one level of safety...
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Well said!
 
Seggy said:
I agree with you, folks should NOT use their AMEs as their primary doctor. However, folks don't even go get their yearly check ups as they should.
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Hm. Interesting. From certain point I never go to doctors, not even for annual checkup ONLY because I don't want a hassle of reporting those visits at the medical. Just wondering if its me alone or more people skipping doctors because of that?
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
One level of safety, you know, the thing the FAA pushes. Unless there is a financial reason not to (UPS crying wolf getting 117 not to apply to cargo) and now this medical issue (congress getting involved in a place they have no business being).

But hey, one level of safety...
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The thing is there is not "One Level of Safety" in aviation. The entire spectrum of aviation has vastly different levels of risk. The FAA judges how many people are being put at risk, what level of risk, how much public access there is to the activity, and (yes it does matter) how much money it will cost to comply.

121, since the general public relies on it to travel to grandmas house, must the lowest level of risk possible. The FAA puts 121 flying to a great deal of scrutiny, and control (dictiating training programs, operational control, ect). No one is talking about relaxing the standards for a first class medical. If anyone was stupid enough to do so, ALPA absolutely should put a stop to it, and I would support them 100%. I think other countries where each crew is given a mini physical before take off are a little out of line, but that's them.

Meanwhile, parachuting out of an airplane is an obviously risky endeavor. The risk is almost entirely assumed by the jumpers themselves, and the FAA exercises almost no regulatory control over skydiving (other than labeling DZs, TSOing parachutes, and certifying riggers). USPA self-regulates the industry, issuing "licenses" and setting training standards. Tandem jumpers realistically know what they are getting themselves into before they jump.

There is no medical required for flying a floating propane bomb over Todd's house in a hot air balloon

LSA pilots do not require a medical, even to carry passengers who are typically family or friends of the pilot. I don't see any serious additional risk to the general public by allowing a guy in a Skyhawk do the same thing, whether or not he has hypertension.
 
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