ALPA and medical reform

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Any chance of answering the question I asked? Which is it, an absolutely necessary safety tool, or some thing any one with a pulse can pass?

It is both at the same time.

1. It's absolutely necessary because it catches serious health deficiencies that rightly prevent someone from being allowed to fly an aircraft; and

2. Only the most serious of medical conditions are disqualifies, so unless you've got one of those, you've got nothing to worry about and shouldn't be opposed to having to get a 3rd class medical every three years. And if you do have one of those, sorry, but you don't belong behind the controls of an airplane.

This started as an ALPA stance on a GA subject. So if we want to talk "safety first" let's talk ALPA's house. US Part 121 currently has the best safety record since its inception. However, people are still managing to crash airplanes the same way they always have.

Really? When was the last passenger fatality in the United States? You avoided answering that question because you don't like the answer. Part 121 pilots are not crashing airplanes. This is the safest commercial aviation has ever been. And yes, largely because of ALPA.

Energy management. I don't see ALPA condemning the pilots of SkyWest and calling for "one level of safety " Or writing congress stating that if they only oversaw SkyWest's pilot group they could make a difference. Where's thier outrage? This is a true safety matter. The fact that they even thought about putting this letter out while remaining silent on the SkyWest issue is beyond laughable.

Your ignorance is showing. It is because of ALPA's efforts after FLG 3701 that high altitude stalls are taught in airline training programs. You see, when ALPA sees a problem, they work to fix it. In fact, ALPA's safety department is the largest non-governmental safety organization in the world.

"Outrage" and "condemning" pilot groups is not a way to fix anything. But productive efforts certainly are, and that's what ALPA does. And that's why they seek to stop anti-safety legislation like this.

So I take it you also support the post-Colgan ATP rules.

Obviously.

And would tend to support increased regulation in all areas

Yes, I'm a liberal democrat, and do tend to support regulations in all areas that protect the consumer and the general public.

 

[deadstick]

So I take it you also support the post-Colgan ATP rules. And would tend to support increased regulation in all areas (I understand you do rental housing) so long as someone can come up with a safety-related imagining or guess..

That's fine. Although I have issues with folks who display a "let's regulate more" political mentality, I admire consistency.

the future will look like the military medical. No self-medicating (even OTC pain reliever) without seeing an AME first, and if you see a non-AME doc, you must go get cleared by an AME (an "up slip") before resuming pilot duties.

 

[deadstick]

So, how many ALPA members were polled by the mothership before this position was decided?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

So, how many ALPA members were polled by the mothership before this position was decided?

You expect ALPA leadership to send out a poll before making every decision?

 

[Seggy]

the future will look like the military medical. No self-medicating (even OTC pain reliever) without seeing an AME first, and if you see a non-AME doc, you must go get cleared by an AME (an "up slip") before resuming pilot duties.

That is pure rhetoric and you know it. That would be like me saying the regs should say that someone who flies recreationally should be required to get a 1st class medical.

Stop grasping at straws.

 

[Seggy]

So, how many ALPA members were polled by the mothership before this position was decided?

I've seen this attempt at creating a talking point on another forum. It just shows ignorance by those who use it on how ALPA is set up through their Constitution and By Laws.

ALPA is a representational democracy. You elect your rep who is a BOD member who then votes on the National Officers. The BOD also sets a strategic plan. Opposing this ridiculous attempt at legislation is within the BOD's strategic plan.

Also most of the ALPA's active members I've seen comment on what ALPA is doing agree with ALPA's position.

 

[PositionAndHold]

It is both at the same time.

1. It's absolutely necessary because it catches serious health deficiencies that rightly prevent someone from being allowed to fly an aircraft; and

2. Only the most serious of medical conditions are disqualifies, so unless you've got one of those, you've got nothing to worry about and shouldn't be opposed to having to get a 3rd class medical every three years. And if you do have one of those, sorry, but you don't belong behind the controls of an airplane.



Really? When was the last passenger fatality in the United States? You avoided answering that question because you don't like the answer. Part 121 pilots are not crashing airplanes. This is the safest commercial aviation has ever been. And yes, largely because of ALPA.



Your ignorance is showing. It is because of ALPA's efforts after FLG 3701 that high altitude stalls are taught in airline training programs. You see, when ALPA sees a problem, they work to fix it. In fact, ALPA's safety department is the largest non-governmental safety organization in the world.

"Outrage" and "condemning" pilot groups is not a way to fix anything. But productive efforts certainly are, and that's what ALPA does. And that's why they seek to stop anti-safety legislation like this.



Obviously.



Yes, I'm a liberal democrat, and do tend to support regulations in all areas that protect the consumer and the general public.

I even stated in my quote that commercial aviation is the safest it has been since inception. I also never stated people are being killed, I said people are still crashing airplanes the same way. How many hull losses have there been? United off the side on takeoff in Denver, Southwest hard landing, Southwest off the end killing a kid in a car, AA off the end in Jamaica. I know there has been an RJ or two written off but those are just what I can remember off the top of my head. Since no one was killed does it make those incidents any less important? The AA 737 was broken into three pieces. I think we've been pretty lucky there hasn't been any deaths.

I guess I don't expect ALPA to comment on Skywest's issues until they bother to take a stance on some thing like this.

Thanks for answering the medical part. While I mostly agree, I just don't think the medical system as it currently stands encourages full disclosure or catches as many things as we think. I think the FAA needs to overhaul the medical system and getting rid of a the third class or increasing what can be flown under the sport pilot medical rules is a start.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

If one has nothing to hide, why would they care if they have a medical once every three years just as a basic check up? Once again it has saved folks from certain medical conditions we have no way of knowing about.

That's my personal physician's job, not my AME's

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

Obviously.

Yes, I'm a liberal democrat, and do tend to support regulations in all areas that protect the consumer and the general public.

Like I said, while I disagree with the "let's regulate everything" mentality (and I may well be even more liberal than you but have had the over-regulation defect tempered by seeing its negative effects through the years), I admire your consistency, even when it means direct costs for you (as I recall, you own rental properties)

 

[wheelsup]

It's interesting ATN correlates not crashing airplanes with safety.

While it's true airplanes are not crashing, lots of bad things are happening 'under the table'.

 

[Hacker15e]

You expect ALPA leadership to send out a poll before making every decision?

I think the issue is -- and this is why I asked the same question on APC -- that ALPA's letter opens with, "On behalf of the 52,000 pilots...."

It sure makes it sound like the organization is speaking the opinion of all of its members, which makes it a more significant opinion when given to Congress.

 

[wheelsup]

That's my personal physician's job, not my AME's

Yeah, every time I go for mine it's a pretty basic check. My routine annual physical is much more thorough and better at catching issues ahead of time. Taking a pee test and blood pressure isn't really that in depth of a physical...

 

[Seggy]

I think the FAA needs to overhaul the medical system and getting rid of a the third class or increasing what can be flown under the sport pilot medical rules is a start.

What is your experience that even remotely qualifies you to make a statement like that?

As I said, a lot of bull fecal matter is being thrown around in this thread.

 

[Seggy]

That's my personal physician's job, not my AME's

Many folks don't get an annual physical. They don't even have a primary care doctor.

The AME is just another layer of protection.

 

[Seggy]

I think the issue is -- and this is why I asked the same question on APC -- that ALPA's letter opens with, "On behalf of the 52,000 pilots...."

It sure makes it sound like the organization is speaking the opinion of all of its members, which makes it a more significant opinion when given to Congress.

Get over it or change it.

It is called being part of a union.

 

[Seggy]

Yeah, every time I go for mine it's a pretty basic check. My routine annual physical is much more thorough and better at catching issues ahead of time. Taking a pee test and blood pressure isn't really that in depth of a physical...

By taking away the AME you are taking away another layer of safety.

 

[fholbert]

Absolutely insane. Congress needs to get out of FAA regulations. The FAA is there for a reason. Let them do their job.

Because the FAA is a real common sense organization?

• I've seen people grounded then fight to get their medical back for the stupidest reasons.
• I've seen others flying who had serious medical issues. They must have lied to get even a 3rd Class, problem is they had a 1st Class and were flying 121.
  
• Sitting in the lobby of a ME's office I've heard talk in the back that really surprised me.

I didn't go to medical school but some of the FAA medical makes no sense to me.

• Why would someone be grounded because they have a hernia? Is that really a threat to aviation safety?
• The ME stands behind me and whispers numbers he wants me to repeat. Heck, if I was hard of hearing I'd turn up the volume on my headset.
• Went to a new ME who wanted 3 BP readings in the last 6 months. He's on the same network as my GP and can see two (highest is 110/80). I rolled up my shirt so he could take a third; No, I'm not allowed to take your BP. WTF? Holds my medical saying I have to come back with a note from my GP. I walked across the street, my GP took my BP and wrote a letter. Returned to the ME with my letter 90 minutes later; I'm sorry the doctor only works until noon on Fridays. Returned to the ME Monday AM; I'm sorry, the doctor is on a 10 day vacation. Two days later I was grounded when my medical expired until he returned from vacation.
  
• The depth perception test. Heck if the guy isn't running into the back of cars I figure he can fly an airplane.
• Color blind test. 42 years a licensed pilot I've NEVER seen a light gun. Even my years in ATC I've never used a light gun (okay, I was usually in approach control).
  
• Stand on one foot. Really?
• Eye test in the hallway. The lighting is so poor I can hardly see the chart let alone the letters. Passed

 

[esa17]

It's crap, but par for the course for ALPA.

All removing the restrictions will do is allow the guys already flying to fly legally. Every small airport is filled with "Old Birds" who are out there flying without medicals already. The FAA doesn't have the manpower or desire to enforce the rules so why have the rules?

 

[mshunter]

Is eliminating the 3rd class the answer? Hell, I don't know. But blanket statements like you love to make, make you look ignorant.

The only ignorance I see in this thread are from folks who think the FAA should do away with a 3rd class medical.

Make sure you don't take crap out of context and cherry pick. Makes ya look bad.

 

[Seggy]

Because the FAA is a real common sense organization?

I have met the last two Federal Air Flight Surgeons, have had personal conversations with them on a variety of issues, and have seen them present numerous times. They are extremely common sense individuals. They know what is going on, they are trying to correct it, and that is why they had a AME 'purge' a few years ago and you have that MedExpress.

Also, in my personal experience, I have yet to see someone grounded for a 'stupid' reason.