Allentown runway incursion...close one!

[greaper007]

I think this might be a standard operating procedure at LGA.

 

[v1valarob]

Gotta love the new info on the weather "All position and hold operations have been suspended until further notice..."

 

[Alpha Lima]

I probably should have touched down further down the runway just as a matter of etiquette, but I didn't. I don't want to be the guy who causes a 737 to go around, but at the same time, you'd think the controller would have anticipated the possibility....

Controller probably had the finger on the button for the go around for the 737, but it worked just in time so it all worked out

 

[killbilly]

Controller probably had the finger on the button for the go around for the 737, but it worked just in time so it all worked out

This might sound like a stupid question, but is there an actual button in the tower that triggers the go-around alarm for an airplane? I'm just curious about that.

In the mean time, I've been refining my landing technique at KAUS. At night, all traffic comes in to 17R/35L. (Daytime GA ops are on 17L/35R.) Because of the runway length I've been adjusting my touchdown point to about 1000-1500' before that taxiway so I can get off the runway quicker. I'm getting better at it.

 

[loubetti]

Yes, there is such a button, it's the transmit button for the controller's microphone.

 

[frog_flyer]

this might sound like a stupid question, but is there an actual button in the tower that triggers the go-around alarm for an airplane? I'm just curious about that.

fail!

yes, there is such a button, it's the transmit button for the controller's microphone.

pwnt!

 

[Bandit_Driver]

I was cleared to land at KAUS one night with a SWA 737 on final. I got the plane down on the runway, and the controller tells me to exit Golf.

Well, 17R at KAUS is looooooong, and I brought it down pretty quick, so I ended up with a long rollout.

The tower started griping at me to hurry up and get off the runway, and I was rolling as quickly as I could to get to Golf, but I still had to slow to make the turn. It was unnerving. I got to the taxiway and off the runway just as the 737 was crossing the threshold (I know because I stopped and looked.)

I probably should have touched down further down the runway just as a matter of etiquette, but I didn't. I don't want to be the guy who causes a 737 to go around, but at the same time, you'd think the controller would have anticipated the possibility....

I routine fly into the KONT airport and due the cargo we have on board we require full length on the landing roll since we cannot slow down that fast or we risk injuring the live cargo. We start telling approach and tower that we will be full length on landing. This gives them a heads up not to run SWA up our tail. It usually works but I have told ATC unable when they want us off the runway.

If you can't reasonably and safely do something ATC asks...Unable is the best response. I am not putting a plane in the grass or injuring cargo just so an airline can be ontime and not go around.

I am suprised the airports have never adopted something like the Navy uses to command go around without a word being said. It would be easy to add it the VASI or PAPI and be a great backup for the long winded guy on tower asking for a clearance.

 

[Scandinavian13]

It could be done. I agree that it could be good in the event the radio isn't free, or something else happens. Sure, we have the light gun, but this would be more effective, as it's right next to the runway. If you're not prepared to be looking for the light gun, you might miss it in the business of landing.

 

[SteveC]

Follow-up:

************************************************************
NTSB ADVISORY
************************************************************

National Transportation Safety Board
Washington, DC 20594

November 19, 2008

************************************************************

NTSB ISSUES UPDATE ON NEAR COLLISION ON ALLENTOWN RUNWAY

************************************************************

In its continuing investigation of a runway incursion in
Allentown, Pennsylvania, involving a general aviation
aircraft and a Chicago-bound regional jet airliner, the
National Transportation Safety Board has developed the
following factual information:

On September 19, 2008, at 7:38 p.m. EDT, a runway incursion
resulted in a near-collision on runway 6 at the Lehigh
Valley International Airport, Allentown, Pennsylvania. Mesa
Air Shuttle flight 7138, a Canadair CRJ-700 (N506MJ) aborted
takeoff at about 120 knots (138 mph), skidding around a
Cessna R172K (N736GV) that had just landed and was still
taxiing on the runway. The crew of the Mesa Air regional
jet estimated the distance between the two aircraft as 10
feet when they passed.

The Mesa Air flight carried 56 passengers and a crew of
four; the Cessna carried a pilot and two passengers. There
was no damage to either aircraft and no reported injuries.
The incident occurred in night meteorological conditions.

A timeline of the incident events is as follows:

7:29:28 - Cessna contacts Allentown tower while about 8
miles east of the airport.

7:33:30 - Cessna, in landing pattern for runway, is cleared
to land on runway 6.

7:34:50 - Mesa Air regional jet contacts tower and reports
ready for takeoff and holding short of runway 6. Controller
instructs pilot to hold short of runway 6 for landing
traffic.

7:36:15 - Cessna crosses threshold of runway 6 and lands.

7:36:27 - Mesa Air instructed by tower controller to taxi
into position on runway 6 and hold.

7:36:36 - Tower controller asks pilot of Cessna where he
intends to park. Following pilot response, controller
provides taxi directions, instructing pilot to exit runway
at taxiway A4.

7:37:11 - Mesa Air cleared for takeoff.

7:37:18 to 7:37:32 - Controller turns attention to an
inbound aircraft and issues landing instructions.

7:37:34 - Cessna pilot informs tower controller that he had
missed the A4 taxiway and asks for permission to exit at
taxiway B.

7:37:42 - Controller replies, "...no delay, turn immediately,"
which Cessna pilot acknowledges.

7:38:16 - Mesa Air radios tower controller: "We got it,
tower - we're going to need to go back to the gate."

Following the incident, both aircraft taxied to parking.
The Mesa Air crew elected to cancel the flight and have the
aircraft inspected. The Cessna taxied to general aviation
parking and concluded the flight.

Safety Board investigators have interviewed the pilots
involved in the incident, and the air traffic controllers on
duty at the time of the incident as well as the FAA tower
managers.

The tire marks created by the Mesa Air regional jet as it
veered around the Cessna can be seen on the left side of the
centerline in the image at
http://www.ntsb.gov/Pressrel/2008/images/Allentown.jpg

 

[JEP]

It also works a bit better at high traffic airports where we understand that there is someone behind and we are all in one huge line. The Cessna probably had no clue as to what his actions would cause.

Im not pointing the blame at anyone. Just my opinion.

And only the pilot of that Cessna knows whether or not he could have made the exit.

Now what would have happened if the Cessna tried and failed to make the turn safely. A closed runway would have caused more trouble than rolling out to the next exit.

 

[Cruise]

Thanks for the preliminary report, Steve!

 

[JEP]

I realize it was jet .vs c172, but it looks like the jet may have been rolling before the 172 even got to the first 'requested' exit point.

Scary indeed.

 

[cmill]

The thing that got me about this is that night VMC prevailed. I can be fairly certain that most pilots who have been to enough airports have recieved a takeoff clearance with another plane on the runway. Common sense dictates that you dont actually take-off untill you know that you're not going to end up in the other planes ass.

I just don't see how the Mesa crew couldn't have seen the cessna in front of them. It really blows my mind that they could have actually missed him.

Everyone is quick to jump on the 172 pilot and the controller, but what about the mesa crew? Yeah, the 172 could have made it sooner, and yes, the controller could have waited to clear mesa, but it was the mesa crew's decision to accept or deny the clearance, in VMC conditions. Poor decision on their part, IMHO.

 

[moxiepilot]

additionally, ABE really isn't that busy... yes it has volume, but not so much that planes are stacked up more than 3 deep after dark.

 

[SoCalAprch]

The thing that got me about this is that night VMC prevailed. I can be fairly certain that most pilots who have been to enough airports have recieved a takeoff clearance with another plane on the runway. Common sense dictates that you dont actually take-off untill you know that you're not going to end up in the other planes ass.

I just don't see how the Mesa crew couldn't have seen the cessna in front of them. It really blows my mind that they could have actually missed him.

Everyone is quick to jump on the 172 pilot and the controller, but what about the mesa crew? Yeah, the 172 could have made it sooner, and yes, the controller could have waited to clear mesa, but it was the mesa crew's decision to accept or deny the clearance, in VMC conditions. Poor decision on their part, IMHO.

The 172 was on a crossing runway and the collision would have been at the intersection.

 

[Matt13C]

The 172 was on a crossing runway and the collision would have been at the intersection.

They both were using runway 6 according to the NTSB report.

 

[adreamer]

Well, like other said, ABE is not that busy. The only busy time I ever see was someone I know who ran over 2 ground hogs in a single landing on runway 6.

 

[JEP]

The 172 was on a crossing runway and the collision would have been at the intersection.

direct from ntsb report:

7:36:15 - Cessna crosses threshold of runway 6 and lands.

7:36:27 - Mesa Air instructed by tower controller to taxi
into position on runway 6 and hold.

c172 would not even cross a4 if on the intersecting rw....

 

[Kingairer]

"Mesa Pilots decided to have the flight cancled so their pants could be changed." The cessna guy probably had no idea where A4 was and didnt realize until it was to late when he had already passed it. Woops.

 

[amorris311]

looking at the airport diagram that cessna was on the brakes to make a4.