Allegiant to purchase 18 MD-80s

Minuteman said:
Would you believe 33% higher fuel burn per seat than a 737? (About 20% higher per mile.)
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This thread just get hijacked by a.net?
 
Doug Taylor said:
I think if you're the only aircraft in the sky sure, but when I was domestic, I'd get slowed down 100's of miles from the destination because of traffic flow, did a lot of "maintain 230 in the climb" because the aircraft in front of us doesn't perform in a normal 'jetlike' fashion in the departure corridors and a bevy of other situations.

The Mad Dog did the best about .77 to .78 and ate quite a bit of gas when down low. But if you're going into a busy airport, you're going to spend a lot of time staring into people's backyards during the arrival.

Things like saving brakes by rolling to the end of the runway will eat your lunch in the aircraft because when it was warm, the brakes tend to 'chatter' which reduces braking ability and, well, anyone with a couple of hours in the aircraft knows, you want to get it on the ground and get it stopped. There have been more than a handful of Mad Dogs that went four-wheelin' because people tried to baby it onto the ground, interfere with that big Rube Goldberg contraption that brings the aircraft to a stop and discovering the error too late.

You can hit the marker at almost any reasonably fast speed and, with an experienced crew, have it configured to perform a safe landing. Now if you're smoking up to the marker in a 757, you're kind of hosed, but that's a whole different conversation.
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Interesting, its unfortunate that we can't have a more efficient way to sequence. I'll keep that in mind, that said, do you think you have any ideas on how to increase efficiency to save precious gas based on your experience?

As for the bolded ,this I'd heard before, there was a guy who was part time "director of marketing" at my old gig who was a 757 check airman, and he told me that thing was really hard to slow down.
 
Before I heard about Allegiants huge profits I used to laugh when I'd see their route map, $19 fares LAX-MRY with an MD-80 on a route where its competitor can't even fill 30 seats most of the time. They must be doing something right!
 
Realistically speaking? Probably look into a arrival/departure system like Amsterdam Schiphol coupled with ADS-B and CPDLC in the terminal and enroute structure and restriction of non-equipped aircraft.

My humble opinion only.

You can fly the airplane as efficiently as you want, but it's up to the guy in front of you who can't fly more than 230 in the climb, the VLA flying .65 at your cruising altitude, gate availability on the ground, etc. It can take hours of flight to make up for ground delays and inefficiencies.
 
ppragman said:
Interesting, its unfortunate that we can't have a more efficient way to sequence. I'll keep that in mind, that said, do you think you have any ideas on how to increase efficiency to save precious gas based on your experience?
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Not dropping me down from FL450 to 15,000' 250 miles from BCT would be a great start.

We need some kind of arrival system designed for a constant angle descent (preferably at flt idle) to a point roughly 3-5 miles from the FAF where we could level off, bring up the power and start chucking stuff out for the approach.

Of course, then I'd need avionics capable of performing such a daunting task.

-mini
 
Doug Taylor said:
Realistically speaking? Probably look into a arrival/departure system like Amsterdam Schiphol coupled with ADS-B and CPDLC in the terminal and enroute structure and restriction of non-equipped aircraft.

My humble opinion only.

You can fly the airplane as efficiently as you want, but it's up to the guy in front of you who can't fly more than 230 in the climb, the VLA flying .65 at your cruising altitude, gate availability on the ground, etc. It can take hours of flight to make up for ground delays and inefficiencies.
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Interesting, ADS-B works great for sequencing us around here, but that's all little airplanes, I'd be interested in how it worked in "big" planes. Supposedly it takes effect as "controlling" starting in April.

minitour said:
Not dropping me down from FL450 to 15,000' 250 miles from BCT would be a great start.

We need some kind of arrival system designed for a constant angle descent (preferably at flt idle) to a point roughly 3-5 miles from the FAF where we could level off, bring up the power and start chucking stuff out for the approach.

Of course, then I'd need avionics capable of performing such a daunting task.

-mini
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Have you heard about the CROD approaches that UPS wants to put together? That's the general idea for how they are going to start up. At ACE we essentially did that at Dutch, flight idle, after crossing the fix off of the NDB and then configuring in the decent. Worked great. Actually, we did that a lot of places, especially on GPS approaches, but I guess the ability to do that is fairly uncommon, if I'm not mistaken from the previous posts. It was especially fun to do that while joining the 12DME arc for ILS into PABE, come screaming down the pike, hit the fix, turn one way, then turn the other way then wow, you're configured, then FAF, and you're done configuring and on speed.
 
Can anyone think of an airline that was run in a similar method to Allegiant?Paying cash for 2nd hand jets.Flying odd routes point to point.Making money.Anyone?
 
Doug Taylor said:
Realistically speaking? Probably look into a arrival/departure system like Amsterdam Schiphol coupled with ADS-B and CPDLC in the terminal and enroute structure and restriction of non-equipped aircraft.

My humble opinion only.

You can fly the airplane as efficiently as you want, but it's up to the guy in front of you who can't fly more than 230 in the climb, the VLA flying .65 at your cruising altitude, gate availability on the ground, etc. It can take hours of flight to make up for ground delays and inefficiencies.
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Hey hey hey, that was me in front of you!
 
So uh. . .I shouldn't be concerned with exceeding my companies standard cruise profile (as indicated on the 121 flight release) right?

Phew, thank goodness.
 
minitour said:
Not dropping me down from FL450 to 15,000' 250 miles from BCT would be a great start.

We need some kind of arrival system designed for a constant angle descent (preferably at flt idle) to a point roughly 3-5 miles from the FAF where we could level off, bring up the power and start chucking stuff out for the approach.

Of course, then I'd need avionics capable of performing such a daunting task.

-mini
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That's what I really admire about the SWA guys. They are always asking for discretion, direct, whatever they can. They do good work and it makes a BIG BIG difference. A lot of other airline's pilots either don't care or are too pissed their pension was taken away to ask for direct to anything.
 
Eh, thats one way. Sometimes I'll splurge when its 60 one way.

All in its a hair over $100. Its worth it to jet off for the weekend.
 
I wonder why Delta lags so much in the upper seniority pay vs. Allegiant? Even if you take out the first year, Allegiant is a $40 difference, while Delta is only $16.
 
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