ppragman
No pasa nada.
I'd be willing to bet that there's a surplus of MD80 parts, mechanics and people with experience in managing them too. In fact, I'd bet that its very very cheap to operate.
Allegiant to purchase 18 MD-80s
- Thread starter surreal1221
- Start date
I'd be willing to bet that there's a surplus of MD80 parts, mechanics and people with experience in managing them too. In fact, I'd bet that its very very cheap to operate.
Minuteman
I HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT AUTOMOTIVE LIGHTING
Would you believe 33% higher fuel burn per seat than a 737? (About 20% higher per mile.)
But when considering acquisition costs, parts, maintenance, overhead and training, the Mad Dog is pretty inexpensive.
Heck, you could probably buy several MD-80's for the price of a single 737NG and part out the rest to keep the single aircraft running.
Keep in mind that fuel is only a portion of the operating costs of an airplane.
ppragman
No pasa nada.
Would you believe 33% higher fuel burn per seat than a 737? (About 20% higher per mile.)
That doesn't help if your mx costs are way higher.
Douglas
Old School KSUX
Wait, is the MD-80 nicknamed Mad Dog?
That is mad dog. Jack Bauer Mad dog. :bandit:
ppragman
No pasa nada.
Plus, according to wikipedia the .76 is the cruise speed on the Mad Dog, and .74 is the cruise speed on the 737, plus, I'd bet from all the stories about the md80 that i've heard it could be operated at a higher level of efficiency if you had crews that were willing to fly the thing to the edge of the safe performance envelope.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
You mean crews that then would be flying non-standard?
If companies developed their flight profiles closer to the edge of the safe performance envelope might be what you're really looking for Pat.
We fly how the company wants us to.
If companies developed their flight profiles closer to the edge of the safe performance envelope might be what you're really looking for Pat.
We fly how the company wants us to.
ppragman
No pasa nada.
Not non-standard, but you can operate within your procedures and still save on maintenance and fuel costs by flying smarter. Southwest guys roll out to the end of the runway to save on brakes, or fly their approaches tight and steep to save on fuel, you can safely operate your airplane to profile without compromising safety.
stuckingfk
Well-Known Member
Common sense would tell me that the bean counters employed by Allegiant have done the math.
I'm a numbers guy so maybe you just don't get it, but when you pay cash for things fixed operating costs go down.
Let's say I buy a Honda Accord for $30,000. It's financed at $26000 and I'm paying roughly $500/month and plan on driving it 2000 miles per month averaging 20 mpg.
100 gallons x $3/gallon = $300
$15 for oil and $500 for payment we come up with a minimum of $815/month, not even touching depreciation.
I take the $4000 and buy a decent beater averaging 15 mpg (being conservative here) driving the same amount. Spend an extra 100 bucks on gas, add $100/month for maintenance (due to the age), and $15 for oil for a total of $515.
Oversimplified but you get the point. Lower direct operating costs like not having huge debt payments and you have more room for error, thus driving up profits when you fill airplanes.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
God, save us from cowboys.
I'm not even sure what that means.
Can you give me a couple of examples how we could fly a mad dog to the edge of the safe performance envelope to increase efficiency?
Seriously, I'm not trying to be a smartass, this just piqued my curiosity!
jhugz
Well-Known Member
lolz, watch out for those nasty PM's
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Need a hug?
falconvalley
Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
1. Allegiant is making money flying around the MD-80.
2. Allegiant wants to stick with it and can get more pretty cheap and that beats a lease.
3. Who cares about the fuel. Their business plan is working.
2. Allegiant wants to stick with it and can get more pretty cheap and that beats a lease.
3. Who cares about the fuel. Their business plan is working.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Yeah the Mad Dog may be a little gas hoggish, but Allegiant won't stay in any market they can't make money (I think that makes a good 4). They are pretty famous for hitting and quitting.
DD?
I'd go. One of the very few airlines I'd even consider sending an application.
-mini
ppragman
No pasa nada.
Perhaps a little more clarity is required, lest I be considered some kind of wacko.
Lol. Here's an example, at my old gig, my profile was to fly at 100kts in the downwind, 90 on base, and 80 on final. That didn't mean I had to fly a super wide pattern and turn base at a distance that would have me flying a 4 mile final in an airplane that small. If the conditions were right, I could fly a tight base and final while meeting the requirements of my profile and saving precious fuel. Do that every day for a year and you save money, over the course of 5-10 years and its a lot of money. Now IFR, you might not be able to do that in all circumstances, but you there is a lot of control you can wield over the airplane to make it more efficient with out doing anything unsafe.
What I mean is that if your profiles are like airnets, which are from what I've heard a "fly it like you stole it" profile, as opposed to slowing to 130kts 25NM out you could fly at more efficient speeds more often, or make approaches which were more steep and make up for the lower fuel economy that way. I distinctly remember being stuck behind an airplanes from PenAir and Era, turbo props like ours, with similar capabilities flying the last 30NM at Vref, even in Vmc. What the flight manual will allow, I don't know, however, you could certainly shave off precious minutes here and there to save on fuel by having profiles which were designed to maximize efficiency, and reduce flight times.
Lol. Here's an example, at my old gig, my profile was to fly at 100kts in the downwind, 90 on base, and 80 on final. That didn't mean I had to fly a super wide pattern and turn base at a distance that would have me flying a 4 mile final in an airplane that small. If the conditions were right, I could fly a tight base and final while meeting the requirements of my profile and saving precious fuel. Do that every day for a year and you save money, over the course of 5-10 years and its a lot of money. Now IFR, you might not be able to do that in all circumstances, but you there is a lot of control you can wield over the airplane to make it more efficient with out doing anything unsafe.
Never flown an MD80, so wouldn't know, specifically.
What I mean is that if your profiles are like airnets, which are from what I've heard a "fly it like you stole it" profile, as opposed to slowing to 130kts 25NM out you could fly at more efficient speeds more often, or make approaches which were more steep and make up for the lower fuel economy that way. I distinctly remember being stuck behind an airplanes from PenAir and Era, turbo props like ours, with similar capabilities flying the last 30NM at Vref, even in Vmc. What the flight manual will allow, I don't know, however, you could certainly shave off precious minutes here and there to save on fuel by having profiles which were designed to maximize efficiency, and reduce flight times.
ppragman
No pasa nada.
ppragman
No pasa nada.
What's the list for you?
I think if you're the only aircraft in the sky sure, but when I was domestic, I'd get slowed down 100's of miles from the destination because of traffic flow, did a lot of "maintain 230 in the climb" because the aircraft in front of us doesn't perform in a normal 'jetlike' fashion in the departure corridors and a bevy of other situations.
The Mad Dog did the best about .77 to .78 and ate quite a bit of gas when down low. But if you're going into a busy airport, you're going to spend a lot of time staring into people's backyards during the arrival.
Things like saving brakes by rolling to the end of the runway will eat your lunch in the aircraft because when it was warm, the brakes tend to 'chatter' which reduces braking ability and, well, anyone with a couple of hours in the aircraft knows, you want to get it on the ground and get it stopped. There have been more than a handful of Mad Dogs that went four-wheelin' because people tried to baby it onto the ground, interfere with that big Rube Goldberg contraption that brings the aircraft to a stop and discovering the error too late.
You can hit the marker at almost any reasonably fast speed and, with an experienced crew, have it configured to perform a safe landing. Now if you're smoking up to the marker in a 757, you're kind of hosed, but that's a whole different conversation.