Allegiant Airlines

Avalon781ML said:
You pay your union maintenance fee and either respect the strike or don't.... should anyone ever cross a picket line?
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Wait let make sure I got this straight. Regardless of if I am a member of the union, I still have to pay a fee? Or are you saying you have to be a member of the union to be a pilot with the company?

What do these fees usually cost? Are we talking 10 bucks a month or 120 a year type thing? Or is it a percentage of my income? Or something else?
 
av8tr1 said:
Wait let make sure I got this straight. Regardless of if I am a member of the union, I still have to pay a fee? Or are you saying you have to be a member of the union to be a pilot with the company?

What do these fees usually cost? Are we talking 10 bucks a month or 120 a year type thing? Or is it a percentage of my income? Or something else?
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I don't think you can be obligated to join a union, but you can be obligated to pay the fees anyways for the contract that union worked for. From what I understand, in the airline industry, if you don't join you still pay dues, which are a percent of your income. 1%ish I think.
 
I thought that in some of these airlines, union membership was a term of employment? Ie- to work there at that shop which is unionized, one must be a union member?
 
av8tr1 said:
Wait let make sure I got this straight. Regardless of if I am a member of the union, I still have to pay a fee? Or are you saying you have to be a member of the union to be a pilot with the company?

What do these fees usually cost? Are we talking 10 bucks a month or 120 a year type thing? Or is it a percentage of my income? Or something else?
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It's called an agency shop provison.

It should have been covered during your legal education.
 
jtrain609 said:
If you cross a picket line, you will be afforded all the rights and responsibilities bestowed upon a scab.

Pretty simple.
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No I get it. Don't cross the picket line, "respect" the strike and the "workers". Or bad things will happen. "Tings can get broke" and all that. I totally get that. I totally understand company management is usually made up of duchebags who screwed over everyone they could as they built their empire.

But hypothetically lets say I work for a company that flies the same aircraft and does charter work. Completely different company, completely different state. Different aircraft. Different everything. No union. We are a small shop with just a couple of aircraft. Boss calls me up one day and says "Av8tr1, I need you at the plane right away. We are going to move the aircraft to National bring on a bunch of passengers and fly to a couple of destinations where we will pick up and drop off passengers at each. We will probably do this over the next week or two".

I've got no idea that there is a strike going on. I hate mainstream media so I don't watch the news. I live in a different state from the company so I don't see the pilots picketing. I literally have no clue that the airline is striking.

I go an fly the flight fat dumb and happy. Am I scab?
 
MikeD said:
I thought that in some of these airlines, union membership was a term of employment? Ie- to work there at that shop which is unionized, one must be a union member?
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The IBT has the option to be a religious objector. Basically your not a member of the Union but must forfeit your dues (or what you would pay in dues) to a charity.

I still don't think that excuse would hold any water in the argument to cross a picket line though.
 
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z987k said:
I don't think you can be obligated to join a union, but you can be obligated to pay the fees anyways for the contract that union worked for. From what I understand, in the airline industry, if you don't join you still pay dues, which are a percent of your income. 1%ish I think.
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Though pilot groups usually are not a fan of the National Railway Labor Act, it does have the effect of maintaining compulsory union status in states that have enacted right to work legislation.
 
jtrain609 said:
It's called an agency shop provison.

It should have been covered during your legal education.
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Oh it was. Agency shops themselves are illegal. But if we use different wording in the employment contract/agreement "fair share fee" gets the union the same result.

Correct me if I am wrong here but if I want a job at a union represented company, regardless of representation I have to join the union. Sorry, I missed typed. Regardless of representation I have to pay a fee to the union.
 
av8tr1 said:
Wait let make sure I got this straight. Regardless of if I am a member of the union, I still have to pay a fee? Or are you saying you have to be a member of the union to be a pilot with the company?

What do these fees usually cost? Are we talking 10 bucks a month or 120 a year type thing? Or is it a percentage of my income? Or something else?
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Yes, usually almost always the same price.

In 2007 when I started at Pinnacle we were given a presentation by ALPA and at the time dues were 1.95% and 401k money was not touched for dues. Anyway, the choice was join ALPA and pay the 1.95% or NOT join ALPA but then still have to pay the 1.95% as a "contract maintenance fee." So in this case the cost was the same and as far as I know every single pilot ever has joined ALPA, at least at Pinnacle. One can hate unions but if they have to pay the same either way then might as well join it and get the protections.
 
av8tr1 said:
Oh it was. Agency shops themselves are illegal. But if we use different wording in the employment contract/agreement "fair share fee" gets the union the same result.

Correct me if I am wrong here but if I want a job at a union represented company, regardless of representation I have to join the union. Sorry, I missed typed. Regardless of representation I have to pay a fee to the union.
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Agency shops aren't illegal. They May have been outlawed in your state, but federally they're allowed and this is a federal issue.

So no, you don't have to join an airlines Union, just pay the agency shop see and go about your business.

Where'd you go to law school?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Yes, usually almost always the same price.

In 2007 when I started at Pinnacle we were given a presentation by ALPA and at the time dues were 1.95% and 401k money was not touched for dues. Anyway, the choice was join ALPA and pay the 1.95% or NOT join ALPA but then still have to pay the 1.95% as a "contract maintenance fee." So in this case the cost was the same and as far as I know every single pilot ever has joined ALPA, at least at Pinnacle. One can hate unions but if they have to pay the same either way then might as well join it and get the protections.
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And for that fee, what do I get?

Don't misunderstand. I am just asking questions as a new airline pilot to get an understanding of how the industry works. I come from outside the airline industry and have zero experience with unions except what I have seen on TV.

There is certainly some question as to what I am reading, but I am hopeful that someone can explain to me how this isn't a shake down like something I might see on the Sopranos.
 
av8tr1 said:
And for that fee, what do I get?

Don't misunderstand. I am just asking questions as a new airline pilot to get an understanding of how the industry works. I come from outside the airline industry and have zero experience with unions except what I have seen on TV.

There is certainly some question as to what I am reading, but I am hopeful that someone can explain to me how this isn't a shake down like something I might see on the Sopranos.
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It's not a shake down because it's been sanctioned by the government.
 
BobDDuck said:
Yep. For life. Actually, you'd still be a scab even after you died. So, forever.

Ignorance is no excuse.
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For the oldies and us generation X pilots, sure. But I bet you todays babies/toddlers will be raised 100% in the electronic iPad era where things like strikes will be seen as silly and immature. Scabs will be forgiven.

And yes I think it's silly once someone is dead to consider them a scab and put "dead" on that list. Get. Over. It. The new generation certainly will, if they even bother to look up from the iPad that is.
 
av8tr1 said:
And for that fee, what do I get?

Don't misunderstand. I am just asking questions as a new airline pilot to get an understanding of how the industry works. I come from outside the airline industry and have zero experience with unions except what I have seen on TV.

There is certainly some question as to what I am reading, but I am hopeful that someone can explain to me how this isn't a shake down like something I might see on the Sopranos.
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Pretty much only the stated givens without the protections. So you'd get the published payscale, per diem, expenses, schedules, vacation bidding, etc. But in terms of the legal protections, services, anything associated directly with ALPA/Herndon, you're out of luck.
 
BobDDuck said:
Yep. For life. Actually, you'd still be a scab even after you died. So, forever.

Ignorance is no excuse.
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So my choice is lose my job by not flying the flight? Or lose my job and never get another again and can expect to be stalked, harassed, threatened, have my hard earned possessions vandalized and probably forced to change careers and lose all the investment in my aviation career?

All because I didn't join the group?
 
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av8tr1 said:
So my choice is loose my job by not flying the flight? Or loose my job and never get another again and can expect to be stalked, harassed, threatened, have my hard earned possessions vandalized and probably forced to change careers and loose all the investment in my aviation career?

All because I didn't join the group?
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Lose, and nobody is talking about vandalism.
 
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