Allegiant Air Fuel Incident

For controllers, remember that you can force the issue of there is ambiguity by declaring an emergency for the PIC.
 
In my career as a dispatcher, I have never denied a crew additional fuel. There were instances when I first started where extra fuel requested by the Captain would bump passengers, at which point a conference call with the chief pilot would occur, but an agreement was always reached. While operational control is 50/50, prior to departure the captain has 51%.....the extra 1% being the parking brake.
When I get uplifted away my current shop, I do ask "what did I miss, what are you seeing?" Many times, this leads to a terrific crew brief, and often times my crews realize they are landing with 16.0 in the tanks and are fine. Other times I get "I don't have to give you a reason. I'm the Captain, and I am uplifting 7000 lbs, VFR day or not". That is a bit annoying, but life is too short.
 
PlaneFan82 said:
Other times I get "I don't have to give you a reason. I'm the Captain, and I am uplifting 7000 lbs, VFR day or not". That is a bit annoying, but life is too short.
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Yeah that call is annoying. I hate the automatically defensive stance that some captains feel they need to take. Just explain to me why you feel you need more fuel. I've never really argued, I just want to know what the captain is seeing that I'm missing.
 
Avalon781ML said:
http://abc30.com/news/terrifying-moments-on-a-flight-from-las-vegas-to-fresno/898398/

Another incident yesterday.... 3rd time the same engine on the airframe has had issues serious enough to warrant an air return...
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Ehh wat.
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Blackhawk said:
For controllers, remember that you can force the issue of there is ambiguity by declaring an emergency for the PIC.
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I'll declare for a pilot just to be on the safe side as will any controller I know. Granted it's less shouting Mayday three times to anyone in earshot while informing the pilot I'm declaring on their behalf (or on a recorded line) and more vectoring someone else 20 degrees.

I looked up the transcript Chasen linked to. I had the pitchforks ready to distribute for the controller, but after reading I'll lock them back in ye olde shed. 20 minutes of fuel to me means 20 minutes till divert to occur with mandated reserves of fuel on board. Bingo fuel in 3 to 4 minutes to me means I land now or in a few minutes I'll divert with proper fuel reserves to ideally land at my alternate with requisite reserves after one landing attempt and a missed. What it does not mean is in 20 minutes the tanks are dry. Given that understanding I'm not about to declare for a flight that I BELIEVE has about 1.5 hours of fuel, a crew who can't read a NOTAM and a suitable alternate 70 miles away.
 
genot said:
I'll declare for a pilot just to be on the safe side as will any controller I know. Granted it's less shouting Mayday three times to anyone in earshot while informing the pilot I'm declaring on their behalf (or on a recorded line) and more vectoring someone else 20 degrees.

I looked up the transcript Chasen linked to. I had the pitchforks ready to distribute for the controller, but after reading I'll lock them back in ye olde shed. 20 minutes of fuel to me means 20 minutes till divert to occur with mandated reserves of fuel on board. Bingo fuel in 3 to 4 minutes to me means I land now or in a few minutes I'll divert with proper fuel reserves to ideally land at my alternate with requisite reserves after one landing attempt and a missed. What it does not mean is in 20 minutes the tanks are dry. Given that understanding I'm not about to declare for a flight that I BELIEVE has about 1.5 hours of fuel, a crew who can't read a NOTAM and a suitable alternate 70 miles away.
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My statement did not refer to this specific case. Just the discussion about ambiguity in communication.
 
BobDDuck said:
They are sending a 757 from LAS to Fresno?

Seems like there would be faster ways to lose money.
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Are they still sending them from Fresno to HNL? As a side note it's sad to see the 75's have problems they were great planes when they got them, best plane I ever flew. It's sad to see what Allegiant's done to them ie: the slacking of maintenance. They said when they got them that the printed money, now I'm guessing they will get rid of them in favor of the new darling, the airbus.
 
Eagle421flyer said:
Are they still sending them from Fresno to HNL? As a side note it's sad to see the 75's have problems they were great planes when they got them, best plane I ever flew. It's sad to see what Allegiant's done to them ie: the slacking of maintenance. They said when they got them that the printed money, now I'm guessing they will get rid of them in favor of the new darling, the airbus.
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I think the only G4 flights HNL gets are from LAX daily and LAS 3 times a week.
 
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