Alaska landing incident SNA

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Or even learn how to manually brake properly, and not cause hot brakes in the first place. Easy enough to do with reversers operating. And on some cases, without them even being used. If one doesn’t know how to apply brakes manually correctly and only relies on autobrakes, what will they do when the autobrakes fails? End up with hot brakes and a blown tire fuse plug?

On long runways, I don’t always even use reversers, if there’s no need for me to clear the runway quickly. RIV, BIF, VCV, DMA…..places like those with very long runways of 12K+….touchdown, a little bit of aerobrake then fly the nose down to the runway while cracking the TRs so they are ready, but not activating them. Quick brake check slowing past 100 kts, and the jet decelerates fine with no autobrakes, no TRs needed. Gingerly applied brakes take over decelerating through 60-70. Works fine. But….is merely one technique. Shorter runways, higher temps, high speeds, more will be utilized as-needed for the situation at hand.

I’ll say true, except our SOP is basically straight out to detent 2. Max if needed.

Our FH also says don’t hold off the nose excessively as “the aerodynamic braking isn’t that great, and risk tail clearance.”

NGs have a higher inflated Vref speeds than the classics, or even the small -700 NG.

The original -900 (non ER) is the worst offender. Weights like 140k-147.3k, flaps 40 final speed 146, flaps 30 final speed 156.

-800s and -900ERs for the most part are 140-155 final speed. Depending on flaps 40/30 and weight of course.


But the NGs have some high Vref speeds, consequently, you do need reverse




My standard is TR detent 2 or full when needed, no AB, and I don’t even touch the brakes until below 100. Around 80-90 I’ll get on brakes, and start stowing the TRs slowly at 80 kts. Works every time, no brake shudder ever. Even on a 115 deg day in Vegas.

 

[MikeD]

I’ll say true, except our SOP is basically straight out to detent 2. Max if needed.

Our FH also says don’t hold off the nose excessively as “the aerodynamic braking isn’t that great, and risk tail clearance.”

NGs have a higher inflated Vref speeds than the classics, or even the small -700 NG.

The original -900 (non ER) is the worst offender. Weights like 140k-147.3k, flaps 40 final speed 146, flaps 30 final speed 156.

-800s and -900ERs for the most part are 140-155 final speed. Depending on flaps 40/30 and weight of course.


But the NGs have some high Vref speeds, consequently, you do need reverse




My standard is TR detent 2 or full when needed, no AB, and I don’t even touch the brakes until below 100. Around 80-90 I’ll get on brakes, and start stowing the TRs slowly at 80 kts. Works every time, no brake shudder ever. Even on a 115 deg day in Vegas.

If your SOP mandates use of anything, then go with that obviously. Understanding though that there are still other ways to accomplish the same thing, your shop has simply selected that way. Which is fine.

Aerobrake means “maintain the same touchdown attitude”, not increase it any. A brief but of this and keep the ability to nicely fly the nosewheel down to the runway; don’t let it slam down.

Reverse, again, depends on the situation at hand. I have them ready by always cracking them, but whether they get used will depend. They may get used right after cracking them, or they might not. All depends. That would be known and planned for prior to touchdown, obviously.

I’ve never had to use full reverser….maybe 50% or so is normal use for us. We can use full reverse if we want, but if theres no major need for it, then no need to stress airframe components for no particular reason.

 

[knot4u]

School busses in South Florida are air conditioned, even.

Do they have seat belts?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

If your SOP mandates use of anything, then go with that obviously. Understanding though that there are still other ways to accomplish the same thing, your shop has simply selected that way. Which is fine.

Aerobrake means “maintain the same touchdown attitude”, not increase it any. A brief but of this and keep the ability to nicely fly the nosewheel down to the runway; don’t let it slam down.

Reverse, again, depends on the situation at hand. I have them ready by always cracking them, but whether they get used will depend. They may get used right after cracking them, or they might not. All depends. That would be known and planned for prior to touchdown, obviously.

I’ve never had to use full reverser….maybe 50% or so is normal use for us. We can use full reverse if we want, but if theres no major need for it, then no need to stress airframe components for no particular reason.

I don’t think a NG would do well without TRs and brakes. Aerodynamic only gets you so far on these stretched out planes. I don’t hold the nose off in a prolonged fashion, but like you said, slowly lower it.

I’ve seen guys get a good touchdown on the mains and stop flying the nose. It comes down hard to the runway. Why? Just lower it. In both the A320 and 737, that usually means slight back pressure as the nose comes down. Slight.

 

[Sculprit]

I passed through SNA today. Hard to tell with the baggage carts in the way but looked as if they are repairing “the jet”. ¯\_( ˘͡ ˘̯)_/¯

 

[Richman]

I passed through SNA today. Hard to tell with the baggage carts in the way but looked as if they are repairing “the jet”. ¯\_( ˘͡ ˘̯)_/¯
View attachment 73755

"You can't fix this Spicoli!"

 

[Beep]

"You can't fix this Spicoli!"

I think the plan is to graffiti it up before Washington shows up to board his homecoming flight back to Seattle.

 

[Soul Brotha']

Jefferson had the single best performance in high school football. Even better than Al Bundy’s 4 TD game.

 

[///AMG]

I will say that I have a hard time believing that passengers are porcelain dolls who will break if the disengagement of auto brakes is a little too rough. That being said, I will judge style when the brakes chatter all the way to the gate. I can't claim my landings are always the best, but if virtual airline has a FOQA brake tracker, they would probably wonder who taught me to not touch them until double digits most of the time. The answer to that would be my tire deflator brakes on my other aircraft, thanks. Technique and nuance aside, I think that we can all agree that going full Leroy Jenkins with the brakes on a 10k+ runway is amateurish. Unlike MikeD, I'd rather use the TRs. Engine failures are free, right?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

The Fleet CA office finally put out a memo that explains it nicely. If performance isn’t an issue, the best thing for a NG is no ABs, reversers until below 100, and then come on brakes. That results in the best brake temps. MAX calls for AB 2 or 3 according to the FH, but 3 is hardly needed unless performance is an issue.


It’s not hard

 

[///AMG]

Also as an aside, I'm still not convinced that I have unlocked this TR position 2 you guys keep talking about. I unstow them, and then put the throttles all the way back. Is there a game shark code that allows more TR? Do I pop the window open and put my palm into the wind? Am I missing out on deceleration? I can't have that in my life. I love throwing babies into the seatbacks, preferably with lots of jolting.

 

[SurferLucas]

Also as an aside, I'm still not convinced that I have unlocked this TR position 2 you guys keep talking about. I unstow them, and then put the throttles all the way back. Is there a game shark code that allows more TR? Do I pop the window open and put my palm into the wind? Am I missing out on deceleration? I can't have that in my life. I love throwing babies into the seatbacks, preferably with lots of jolting.

Here ya go, 1 and 2 detents

 

[MikeD]

Also as an aside, I'm still not convinced that I have unlocked this TR position 2 you guys keep talking about. I unstow them, and then put the throttles all the way back. Is there a game shark code that allows more TR? Do I pop the window open and put my palm into the wind? Am I missing out on deceleration? I can't have that in my life. I love throwing babies into the seatbacks, preferably with lots of jolting.

Related to this, you ever see pilots trying to yank straight up on the TR handles and they seem jammed? Because they don’t allow for the 1 second for interlock pins at the base of the handles to retract. So they’re sitting there yanking up on reverse handles that are doing nothing and not allowing them to progress further.

 

[///AMG]

Related to this, you ever see pilots trying to yank straight up on the TR handles and they seem jammed? Because they don’t allow for the 1 second for interlock pins at the base of the handles to retract. So they’re sitting there yanking up on reverse handles that are doing nothing and not allowing them to progress further.

Rip it HARDER....HARDER!!!!!!

 

[Skåning]

It’s in the FOM that you have to sing “motoring” when starting a MAX engine

 

[ASpilot2be]

It’s in the FOM that you have to sing “motoring” when starting a MAX engine

Did it apply to the NEO as well?

 

[BobDDuck]

Did it apply to the NEO as well?

Any song by Duel Kool and the Gang was permitted, but "Too Hot" and "Celebration" were recommended.

 

[ERfly]

Related to this, you ever see pilots trying to yank straight up on the TR handles and they seem jammed? Because they don’t allow for the 1 second for interlock pins at the base of the handles to retract. So they’re sitting there yanking up on reverse handles that are doing nothing and not allowing them to progress further.

Worst guy I flew with at my previous employer did this every single leg and still didn't get it. I just laughed and begged for time to speed up so I could get home and get the hell off the jet and away from him.

He was also terrified of clouds...not storms...clouds.

 

[roundout]

Did it apply to the NEO as well?

No because it doesn’t say MOTORING, unlike the Guppy. Matter of fact, the Guppy does a lot of stuff the Bus doesn’t. And doesn’t do a lot of stuff the Bus does.

 

[Skåning]

the Guppy SUCKS And doesn’t do a lot of stuff the Bus does.

FTFY