Alaska Hawaiian Merger

BobDDuck said:
Your vacation is 3:30 per day. Hawaiian's is 4 per day. At 41 days that's an extra 20 hours per pilot. That means for every 41 pilots you need an additional pilot to cover a 82 hour ALV. So 90 additional pilots (if every current alaska pilot was maxed out on vacation accrual... which of course they aren't).

With pay rates increases, the cost to the company is just the increase in pay plus the DC component. With adding pilots it's the yearly pay (so maybe an average of $250k) plus 30% to 40% fringe... so another $100k or so).

Again, when it comes to negotiating capital, money is just money, and head count is real cost.
Click to expand...

It’s 3:45 pay

And 41 days vacation is top end scale. That’s a very few amount of people. I’m about to go from 24 days this year to 30 days next year.

Once you account for the fact it’s a far more balanced field, and vacation is only 0:15 difference, the math mellows out.

The real question is how you’re allowed to use your vacation. I hear HAL guys can’t split their vacation up into multi-day events.
 
Seggy said:
Before you even think of going there, should we consider the amount of negotiating capital that will be needed to burn to get the Alaska guys/gals up to industry scope language? Last time I checked Scope is Section 1, Pay Rates Section 3....wonder why...
Click to expand...

What don’t you like in AS scope?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
The real question is how you’re allowed to use your vacation. I hear HAL guys can’t split their vacation up into multi-day events.
Click to expand...

You heard wrong. Vacation has to be bid on 7 day (min) blocks, but unlike you guys we don't have to bid more than 7 days during our initial bid. After that we can cancel any days we want (as long as there are more than 2 days between blocks) or add in days if there are slots available, up until the 1st of the month prior. We can also so vacation bank to cover dropped trips or resrrve days during the month assuming there is coverage. Anything we don't use gets cashed out the next year. Also we require a minimum of 5% of vacation lines in every month. Between the higher percentage and the fact that a lot of senior guys only take their required 7 days and cash the rest out, it's relativity easy for a junior pilot to get days of vacation where you want them.
 
BobDDuck said:
You heard wrong. Vacation has to be bid on 7 day (min) blocks, but unlike you guys we don't have to bid more than 7 days during our initial bid. After that we can cancel any days we want (as long as there are more than 2 days between blocks) or add in days if there are slots available, up until the 1st of the month prior. We can also so vacation bank to cover dropped trips or resrrve days during the month assuming there is coverage. Anything we don't use gets cashed out the next year. Also we require a minimum of 5% of vacation lines in every month. Between the higher percentage and the fact that a lot of senior guys only take their required 7 days and cash the rest out, it's relativity easy for a junior pilot to get days of vacation where you want them.
Click to expand...
If only the union had made a bunch of this information available so that people could read it and compare the contracts themselves instead of repeating what they heard from their new hire classmates FO’s cousin who works in crew scheduling

Oh wait
 
BobDDuck said:
You heard wrong. Vacation has to be bid on 7 day (min) blocks, but unlike you guys we don't have to bid more than 7 days during our initial bid. After that we can cancel any days we want (as long as there are more than 2 days between blocks) or add in days if there are slots available, up until the 1st of the month prior. We can also so vacation bank to cover dropped trips or resrrve days during the month assuming there is coverage. Anything we don't use gets cashed out the next year. Also we require a minimum of 5% of vacation lines in every month. Between the higher percentage and the fact that a lot of senior guys only take their required 7 days and cash the rest out, it's relativity easy for a junior pilot to get days of vacation where you want them.
Click to expand...

Can you be forced to not use the vacation, and force carry next year / paid out? Or if one has 30 days he can bid all 30 days as part of the vacation award process?
 
BobDDuck said:
You heard wrong. Vacation has to be bid on 7 day (min) blocks, but unlike you guys we don't have to bid more than 7 days during our initial bid. After that we can cancel any days we want (as long as there are more than 2 days between blocks) or add in days if there are slots available, up until the 1st of the month prior. We can also so vacation bank to cover dropped trips or resrrve days during the month assuming there is coverage. Anything we don't use gets cashed out the next year. Also we require a minimum of 5% of vacation lines in every month. Between the higher percentage and the fact that a lot of senior guys only take their required 7 days and cash the rest out, it's relativity easy for a junior pilot to get days of vacation where you want them.
Click to expand...


Wow I could race bikes again!
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Can you be forced to not use the vacation, and force carry next year / paid out? Or if one has 30 days he can bid all 30 days as part of the vacation award process?
Click to expand...

We can not carry vacation. Anything we don't use gets cashed out. You are forced to use 7 days. If you have 30 days you can bid anything between 7 and 30 and then use whatever is left later in the year (up until the 1st of the month prior) or not and get paid out later.
 
Also @Cherokee_Cruiser can you explain to me the limits, Horizon has through the Alaska CBA?

Actually no, I will save you the trouble. Wouldn't you say they are nearly nonexistent?
 
BobDDuck said:
To add new codeshare must have added 1 pilot and 1 block hour in the past 365 days. No requirements to shrink codeshare when stagnant or shrinking.
Click to expand...

IMG_1186.jpeg
 
Seggy said:
Also @Cherokee_Cruiser can you explain to me the limits, Horizon has through the Alaska CBA?

Actually no, I will save you the trouble. Wouldn't you say they are nearly nonexistent?
Click to expand...

Seat limit, a weight limit, and a rolling 12 month percentage for small aircraft service as a percentage; and a scenario for if there’s an involuntary pilot furlough.



The problem, was that AS/VX had to go from literally zero scope to something for the first time in either’s history. While what we have isn’t perfect, it’s still a a decent first time achievement.
 
BobDDuck said:
To add new codeshare must have added 1 pilot and 1 block hour in the past 365 days. No requirements to shrink codeshare when stagnant or shrinking.
Click to expand...

I can't remember exactly - I think that the genesis of this was from AzulNorth or vice versa - Azul got the same template from Eskimo. But, basically... the same deal exists at Norte. I remember it was advertised that it would take a very complicated, hard to track issue and make it simple and tie it to "growth" and a lack of career stalling.

My memory for a lot of these details imploded during the plague especially since my heavy comms work was during the lead up to our 1st ratification.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
The problem, was that AS/VX had to go from literally zero scope to something for the first time in either’s history. While what we have isn’t perfect, it’s still a a decent first time achievement.
Click to expand...

Blame for that (and most of the crap in the AS contract) rests solely on the legacy AS pilots. They simply didnt care enough to have that in the contract years ago when everyone else got it. Now it's clean up time to just catch up.
 
BobDDuck said:
We can not carry vacation. Anything we don't use gets cashed out. You are forced to use 7 days. If you have 30 days you can bid anything between 7 and 30 and then use whatever is left later in the year (up until the 1st of the month prior) or not and get paid out later.
Click to expand...
Your system doesn’t sound better, just different. We have vacation buy backs, vacation open time, trading, etc. The flexibility is there, just not as much accrual as we should be getting.
 
Skåning said:
Your system doesn’t sound better, just different. We have vacation buy backs, vacation open time, trading, etc. The flexibility is there, just not as much accrual as we should be getting.
Click to expand...

I'm not doing an "ours us better" dance but details matter here to understand what I'm getting at... your buy back occurs in July of the year prior, before you bid your slots for the following year, so it occurs at a lower payrate than what a post vacation year buyback would, but more importantly every fsy sold back is removed from the total liability the company has to account for when generating vacation slots for the upcoming year. Couple that with pilots having to bid all their vacation at once means junior pilots get stuck with January/February vacations they may not want, and no opportunity to trade (except pilot to pilot) because there are no open slots to trade into.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top