AirTran/SWA Seniority Integration Deal

MikeD said:
Are things too far down the road for the whole thing to be called off? Or is there going to be a deal, one way or another?
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What do you mean by "calling the whole thing off?" You mean the deal, or the merger? The merger is happening. They've already acquired us, way back in May. No turning back on that.

jtrain609 said:
I wouldn't exactly count on getting a JNOV. They're nearly impossible to get, and are overturned easily.
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Not counting on it, but it has happened before for us. These DFR cases are strange.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
What do you mean by "calling the whole thing off?" You mean the deal, or the merger? The merger is happening. They've already acquired us, way back in May. No turning back on that.
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Was referring to Boris's quote below, and looking for clarification. Didn't know what kinds of recourse are available in that regard. But I imagine by you mentioning "gun to you guys head", there indeed is no turning back. Sucks, definitely.

Boris Badenov said:
Seems to me that the wisest course of action would be to just torpedo the whole deal (if they still can). At this point, no good comes of this, whatever happens. IMHO, etc etc.
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For what it's worth I have noticed an abnormal amount of ATN B717's( who usually fly all out to inside the FAF) slowing to a crawl 15 miles out when they know SWA is following.

It's a shame it is going down like this because I like working with both airlines and I have a feeling this will hurt the generally good attitudes from both pilot groups.


<---likes happy pilots
 
boondr said:
For what it's worth I have noticed an abnormal amount of ATN B717's( who usually fly all out to inside the FAF) slowing to a crawl 15 miles out when they know SWA is following.

It's a shame it is going down like this because I like working with both airlines and I have a feeling this will hurt the generally good attitudes from both pilot groups.


<---likes happy pilots
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You don't like the soap opera?
 
Doug Taylor said:
The rest... Well having been through an airline merger, I really don't see the point in engaging in debate with a user who I have no idea what his/her experience is — kind of why I pulled the ejection handle on a.net vis a vis "The 727 doesn't work like that!" / "Dude, I FLY the 727, who are you again?" :)
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Awww, man.... I would have paid cash money to see that smack down.

Richman
 
Baghdadbob.jpg


ALPA is infallible!

ALPA made the right call about SL9!

ALPA took exceptional care of the TWA pilots!

SWAPA is just a scumbag, in-house union and not NEARLY as powerful as the all-mighty ALPA!

Gary, Colleen, Herb and SWAPA will be decimated by the overwhelming intelligence and strategic and tactical brilliance of ALPA!
 
Waco, this has very little to do with ALPA.

The simplistic view is that the AirTran pilots have two choices. They can either vote to accept the offer from SWA and take huge seniority hits with very little monetary compensation to offset it (which is pretty much the only difference between this offer and the first one) or they can vote no and rely on the courts to protect their CBA. This will probably be a long and drawn out process with unknown chances of success.

So what do you advocate for? A guaranteed job for the short term, but very little protection down the road from furloughs and paycuts as SWA continues to loose money and efficiencies or an unknown future where the courts may find in your favor eventually, but you may loose your job in the short term.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Er, when was the last time SWA furloughed or cut pay?
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SWA has been around only 40 or so years. They said the same thing about Delta for 60+ years, right up until Ron Allen furloughed pilots during 7.5. Be very careful about saying somethings will never happen. Pride before the fall.
 
I don't think I was making the claim that it couldn't happen. I do think that SWA's vital signs are still a lot stronger than those of an airline I would expect to furlough in the forseeable future. Just a datapoint.
 
Boris Badenov said:
I don't think I was making the claim that it couldn't happen. I do think that SWA's vital signs are still a lot stronger than those of an airline I would expect to furlough in the forseeable future. Just a datapoint.
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And in 1993 when Delta furloughed for the 1st time, they had just come off being the airline with the strongest balance sheet in the industry and making the decision to purchase Pan Am assets.... Just another datapoint.
 
BobDDuck said:
as SWA continues to loose money
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I'm confused. They haven't posted a yearly loss for 38 years. Sure they have a bad quarter every once in a while but they have rebounded every time.

I think people keep making an assumption that SWA is "just another airline". As of right now they are very different compared to all the other airlines out there. There is a reason why they continue to post profits (even through tough economic times) and are still able to pay their employees some of the best wages in the industry. They are a very different animal that continues to this day to be underestimated by their counterparts.
 
Maurus said:
I think people keep making an assumption that SWA is "just another airline". As of right now they are very different compared to all the other airlines out there. There is a reason why they continue to post profits (even through tough economic times) and are still able to pay their employees some of the best wages in the industry. They are a very different animal that continues to this day to be underestimated by their counterparts.
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Right now, the only thing that makes Southwest different than anybody else is there marketing department. 5 years ago? Sure, they were different. They paid half as much as anybody else for fuel, they only flew into airports where they didn't face big delays, they only flew city pairs that would make them money and they had a work group who would pretty much die for them. Now they pay pretty much the same as everybody else for fuel, they sit in the same lines that everybody else does in PHL, BOS and LGA, they operate some city pairs not because they are profitable but rather because everybody else does them and they have to compete and the TA that was offered to the pilot group about a year ago was voted down by 50 something percent because the (mostly) junior guys didn't feel it did enough for them.

I'm not saying they can't change course and continue to be massively successful but as of right now they are exactly the same animal as everybody else.
 
BobDDuck said:
Waco, this has very little to do with ALPA.

The simplistic view is that the AirTran pilots have two choices. They can either vote to accept the offer from SWA and take huge seniority hits with very little monetary compensation to offset it (which is pretty much the only difference between this offer and the first one) or they can vote no and rely on the courts to protect their CBA. This will probably be a long and drawn out process with unknown chances of success.

So what do you advocate for? A guaranteed job for the short term, but very little protection down the road from furloughs and paycuts as SWA continues to loose money and efficiencies or an unknown future where the courts may find in your favor eventually, but you may loose your job in the short term.
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Bob,

I have a different perspective:

We have the ability to seize and unexpected opportunity. We can rely on the full force of the law and maybe improve that opportunity, or maybe we'll destroy it. Alternatively we can be honest about the position we are in and what being hired at Southwest represents: this is the sort of carrier many of us were working towards getting hired at. This is the finish line.

I'm proud of where I came from but I am much more interested in where I am going.
 
Justanaviator said:
I'm proud of where I came from but I am much more interested in where I am going.
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Fair enough. It's your career and obviously you have to do what you feel comfortable with. I'm looking in from the outside and with that I can have no fear of making the "wrong" choice. I really hope it works out well for all the AirTran guys no matter which choice they make.
 
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