AirTran furloughs announced, concessions requested

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

And ALPA is great how? For making secretive LOAs that help one set of people in the same group. Same as agreeing to concessionary contracts.... ever..... etc.etc.etc.

What are you babbling about? You realize that ALPA doesn't represent the AirTran pilots, right?

 

[derg]

And ALPA is great how? For making secretive LOAs that help one set of people in the same group. Same as agreeing to concessionary contracts.... ever..... etc.etc.etc.

Canadians make rotten hot dogs, but I'm probably still going down the street to get me a Chicago-style at the local hot dog joint here in Scottsdale! Mmm, mmm!

 

[FlyChicaga]

Canadians make rotten hot dogs, but I'm probably still going down the street to get me a Chicago-style at the local hot dog joint here in Scottsdale! Mmm, mmm!

Ketchup is for girlymen!

Good luck to you Citrus guys. It sounds like you're getting rammed hard by both sides, and that is sad to hear.

 

[Velocipede]

Anyone who says money can't buy happiness doesn't know where to shop.

 

[meritflyer]

By the way, the bonuses that our management "team" took over just the previous year would have paid for every single one of the 177 on the furlough/termination list to remain employed for an entire year. That doesn't even count the exercised stock options.

I am unfamiliar with the situation at AAI and how your management is trying to 'deal' with the staffing situation but I ask, if staffing levels don't
fit RE's (labor or manufacturing term meaning reasonable expectations) or operational necessity, why would any business owner or executive keep such employees around?

This is a business not a hang out. Even if your management returned their bonuses to keep the pilots on, what's the point? Under the reduction in capacity, they're no longer needed. Harsh reality but guess what? It happens everyday, in every sector of business.

 

[surreal1221]

:banghead:

The tides have turned for our once great meritflyer.

How is that GV treating you?

----

The point though, in my humble opinion, and it very well may not be in agreement with Todd is that by keeping those 177 employees still employed that's 177 families that have a paycheck, that have money to pay bills, to spend on their kids, to buy gas, to buy any consumer discretionary item. . .to essentially fuel our economy. But I know, none of that is important anymore. The "free market" will take care of things.

----

 

[meritflyer]

:banghead:

The tides have turned for our once great meritflyer.

How is that GV treating you?

----

The point though, in my humble opinion, and it very well may not be in agreement with Todd is that by keeping those 177 employees still employed that's 177 families that have a paycheck, that have money to pay bills, to spend on their kids, to buy gas, to buy any consumer discretionary item. . .to essentially fuel our economy. But I know, none of that is important anymore. The "free market" will take care of things.

----

Not so, not so. Don't mistake my position.

If their union can mitigate furloughs via the standard measures and extend the workforce, I am 100% in support. However, you can't simply pay for a workforce that isn't operationally necessary.

The GV? LOL!

That was reported by the Chris_Ford news agency. However, my 172 I am teaching is is great!

 

[surreal1221]

Ah. . .no GV then. . .you suck. Loser.

Unlike many industries, airline management can do a lot of things to make the extra bodies work. It's just if they really want to do it. Air Tran is going to take orders of planes again eventually, and surprisingly - I see them increasing market share to a number of regions that have failing airline service presently. But of course - that's the micro picture, that'll never have a chance to play out if the macro picture never is focused again.

But yeah - anyway. . .I'd rather have 177 extra people fueling the economy than 10-15 VP's and managers who just tossed their bonuses into a 401(k) or other investment tool that isn't even going to help re-ignite the great powerful economy of 'Merica. Just goes to show the whole redistribution of wealth in this country. Shocking honestly. And we wonder why our economy is in such bad shape. Well dummies - we have people taking bonuses, while they send people to the street, hence not distributing income in a way that would support an economy to flourish. But - blah blah blah blah blah. I'm tired. . .

Glad we still have you around and some sense is still in that good ol' brain of yours. Now go make some real money and live life to the fullest.

 

[kellwolf]

Now go make some real money and live life to the fullest.

Translation: Go spend money to fuel the economy

 

[meritflyer]

But yeah - anyway. . .I'd rather have 177 extra people fueling the economy than 10-15 VP's and managers who just tossed their bonuses into a 401(k) or other investment tool that isn't even going to help re-ignite the great powerful economy of 'Merica. Just goes to show the whole redistribution of wealth in this country. Shocking honestly. And we wonder why our economy is in such bad shape. Well dummies - we have people taking bonuses, while they send people to the street, hence not distributing income in a way that would support an economy to flourish. But - blah blah blah blah blah. I'm tired. . .

Putting 177 people on the street is an honest businessman's worst nightmare. I've had to lay people off and it's nothing short of watching a dog get run over. The reality is sometimes it has to be done.

AAI is a publically held company which means the owners of the company have in essence, hired managememt to make them a return on their investment which they're legally obligated to do. Tough economics always hit labor the hardest and it's sad to watch these guys feel the grunt of it.

Like mentioned, a good union will use all the tools in their bag to mitigate furloughs or limit the amount of time someone is on furlough. Hopefully AAI's union has a few tricks in their bag.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

The point here is simple: if the company was truly in such horrible shape that we need to scale back flying by 15% and furlough 177 pilots, then senior management shouldn't be taking multi-million dollar bonuses and voting themselves pay raises and stock option grants. If we can't afford to employ front-line employees, then that money needs to be invested in the company, not in some VP's car collection or third summer home in the Hamptons.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

What are you babbling about? You realize that ALPA doesn't represent the AirTran pilots, right?

Innocent question here.... if you're so vehemently against USAPA, do you not think it is wrong of your pilot group NOT to be represented by ALPA?

You guys are represented by the National Pilots Association, near as I can tell....

 

[JoelT]

Innocent question here.... if you're so vehemently against USAPA, do you not think it is wrong of your pilot group NOT to be represented by ALPA?

You guys are represented by the National Pilots Association, near as I can tell....

That's a completely different situation. AAI has never been ALPA. The NPA was not formed with the intent to disenfranchise half of the pilot group. In fact, AAI was non-union for quite a while and with the management over there getting any Union was a real feat.

Yes, the AirTran pilots need ALPA its just that most don't know it yet. Or, they are just now starting to figure it out. But, before they go with ALPA there needs to be a major shift in the culture of the pilot group. No more of this "battered wife syndrome".

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

That's a completely different situation. AAI has never been ALPA. The NPA was not formed with the intent to disenfranchise half of the pilot group. In fact, AAI was non-union for quite a while and with the management over there getting any Union was a real feat.

Yes, the AirTran pilots need ALPA its just that most don't know it yet. Or, they are just now starting to figure it out. But, before they go with ALPA there needs to be a major shift in the culture of the pilot group. No more of this "battered wife syndrome".

:yeahthat: I think the culture is starting to shift. We're getting there.

 

[Trip7]

Are you still singing this song?

God, you're a broken record dude.

Here is an article you may find somewhat interesting on the matter...

Completely disagree. PCL_128 is 100% right. G.W. Bush is the worst president by far in American history. He single-handily has led the demise of this nation. He's the most impeachable president in history yet everybody just looks the other way as he screws up the nation more everyday.

We went to war in Iraq over an outright LIE. Sadam was no threat to USA. Thousands of American soldiers and innocent iraqi citizens have died just because G.W needed to take care of his own agenda. How much have we spent in Iraq? Around 3 trillion? I bet that money could have helped the economy. Hell, it probably would have paid for universal health insurance. At the worst even if we didn't spend that money at all we wouldn't have DOUBLED our national debt.

So what has old GW done? Lied to the American people to go to war, caused the deaths of over 4,000 american soldiers, doubled our national debt, caused the rest of the world to hate Americans even more, and is leaving office after 8 glorious years with our economy in ruins. BTW, Osama Bin Laden is still out there. So much for the War on Terror.

But its ok, most Americans will continue being ignorant that nothing criminal is going on in Washington, wave their American flags high, and vote in McCain in to finish G.W's destruction of the nation.

 

[Kristie]

hmmm is this thread ready for the lav or will it stay on topic?

 

[surreal1221]

Uh. . .I think this area right here is just fine.

One little hic-up won't hurt a thing.

 

[meritflyer]

Completely disagree. PCL_128 is 100% right. G.W. Bush is the worst president by far in American history. He single-handily has led the demise of this nation. He's the most impeachable president in history yet everybody just looks the other way as he screws up the nation more everyday.

We went to war in Iraq over an outright LIE. Sadam was no threat to USA. Thousands of American soldiers and innocent iraqi citizens have died just because G.W needed to take care of his own agenda. How much have we spent in Iraq? Around 3 trillion? I bet that money could have helped the economy. Hell, it probably would have paid for universal health insurance. At the worst even if we didn't spend that money at all we wouldn't have DOUBLED our national debt.

So what has old GW done? Lied to the American people to go to war, caused the deaths of over 4,000 american soldiers, doubled our national debt, caused the rest of the world to hate Americans even more, and is leaving office after 8 glorious years with our economy in ruins. BTW, Osama Bin Laden is still out there. So much for the War on Terror.

But its ok, most Americans will continue being ignorant that nothing criminal is going on in Washington, wave their American flags high, and vote in McCain in to finish G.W's destruction of the nation.

Before you jump on that tired old GW bandwagon, might you reference the public law 107-243, also known as the Iraq War Resolution which passed overwhelmingly in the House and Senate. In addition, my original comment was in reference to the comment about the state of the economy, not about the Iraq war which was authorized by Congress. Pay attention to the economic statistics for the last 8 years and you'll find, the economy was overwhelimingly strong v. the current day situation.

Maybe, when you discuss "Washington" you should take a critical look at both parties rather than, as I already mentioned, be so quick to point fingers at GW. It's a very distorted view to think one side is any better than the other or for that matter, any less 'guility'. In fact, the democrat-led House and Senate have one of the lowest approval ratings (yes, even lower than GW) when compared to the last 35 years so, go figure.

 

[SmoothLanderJ]

Completely disagree. PCL_128 is 100% right. G.W. Bush is the worst president by far in American history. He single-handily has led the demise of this nation. He's the most impeachable president in history yet everybody just looks the other way as he screws up the nation more everyday.

We went to war in Iraq over an outright LIE. Sadam was no threat to USA. Thousands of American soldiers and innocent iraqi citizens have died just because G.W needed to take care of his own agenda. How much have we spent in Iraq? Around 3 trillion? I bet that money could have helped the economy. Hell, it probably would have paid for universal health insurance. At the worst even if we didn't spend that money at all we wouldn't have DOUBLED our national debt.

So what has old GW done? Lied to the American people to go to war, caused the deaths of over 4,000 american soldiers, doubled our national debt, caused the rest of the world to hate Americans even more, and is leaving office after 8 glorious years with our economy in ruins. BTW, Osama Bin Laden is still out there. So much for the War on Terror.

But its ok, most Americans will continue being ignorant that nothing criminal is going on in Washington, wave their American flags high, and vote in McCain in to finish G.W's destruction of the nation.

Now Marcus, you know you can go off and talk like that. Whats wrong with you bro??

 

[Nihon_Ni]

The point here is simple: if the company was truly in such horrible shape that we need to scale back flying by 15% and furlough 177 pilots, then senior management shouldn't be taking multi-million dollar bonuses and voting themselves pay raises and stock option grants. If we can't afford to employ front-line employees, then that money needs to be invested in the company, not in some VP's car collection or third summer home in the Hamptons.

Stock holders vote on the compensation packages of management--they don't vote themselves a payraise like congress does. If you want management to take a pay cut, get involved in the process by owning a chunk of the action and vote your shares as you see fit.