Airshow Accident

Yeah, apparently the reports I heard yesterday (which were from what are usually quite reliable sources -- jet airshow buds in the UK) were wrong. Best of luck, Andy.
 
I think there is an "airshow mindset issue." Seems like a lot of stupid decisions by guys who are normally good decision makers. I have an F18 buddy that hates going to airshows for this reason. If he can he'll drop the plane off and go hang in a hotel or a friends house until after the show. I love airplanes but stay home when it comes to airshows.
 
AAPalmTree said:
I think there is an "airshow mindset issue." Seems like a lot of stupid decisions by guys who are normally good decision makers. I have an F18 buddy that hates going to airshows for this reason. If he can he'll drop the plane off and go hang in a hotel or a friends house until after the show. I love airplanes but stay home when it comes to airshows.
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I feel you. I'm pretty much the same way. However, I plan on being in Pensacola for Blues weekend next year. Not necessarily for the Blues though..hah.
 
Hacker15e said:
I see the quick nose drop of an accelerated stall right before impact.

Reports late now saying the pilot, Andy Hill, has also died.
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At the risk of sounding like a moron....How is this prevented? Never done aerobatic flying in anything. Much less a fighter. Super curious.
 
Pachong said:
At the risk of sounding like a moron....How is this prevented? Never done aerobatic flying in anything. Much less a fighter. Super curious.
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Probably should had rolled it back upright and called it a barrel role instead of continuing over the top. 20/20 hindsight...
 
Looks very similar to the F-16 Thunderbird accident that forced the pilot to eject just before impact. IIRC the accident was caused by the pilot incorrectly doing the math of how high he needed to be to start the maneuver. I don't understand why airshow performers don't use QFE instead of QNH. Trying mental math during maneuvers doesn't seem like the safest option.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
Looks very similar to the F-16 Thunderbird accident that forced the pilot to eject just before impact. IIRC the accident was caused by the pilot incorrectly doing the math of how high he needed to be to start the maneuver. I don't understand why airshow performers don't use QFE instead of QNH. Trying mental math during maneuvers doesn't seem like the safest option.
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He set the QFE of the practice field, Indian Springs, instead of the QFE at Mountain Home.

Habit patterns are hard to break.

Btw, none of these guys pull this stuff out of their butt...if there is math to be done, it is figured out at zero knots and 1G, then memorized, then chair flown, long before ever turning a wheel on show or practice day.
 
Hacker15e said:
He set the QFE of the practice field, Indian Springs, instead of the QFE at Mountain Home.

Habit patterns are hard to break.
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If he set QFE shouldn't have the altimeter read 0 feet sitting on the runway? I was thinking he did the math wrong adding altitude required for the maneuver to the wrong field elevation so he pulled early. I also saw the Blue's solo make, what I assume to be a similar error but when to full burner at the bottom as was able to arrest the sink rate about 100' or so above the runway
 
Bandit_Driver said:
If he set QFE shouldn't have the altimeter read 0 feet sitting on the runway? I was thinking he did the math wrong adding altitude required for the maneuver to the wrong field elevation so he pulled early. I also saw the Blue's solo make, what I assume to be a similar error but when to full burner at the bottom as was able to arrest the sink rate about 100' or so above the runway
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If he set QFE for the wrong field, all bets are off. Do they compute QFE for that day at that field, or what? How did he set QFE for a different field? We get settings for each runway over here. @Hacker15e @MikeD...
 
Bandit_Driver said:
If he set QFE shouldn't have the altimeter read 0 feet sitting on the runway? I was thinking he did the math wrong adding altitude required for the maneuver to the wrong field elevation so he pulled early. I also saw the Blue's solo make, what I assume to be a similar error but when to full burner at the bottom as was able to arrest the sink rate about 100' or so above the runway
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I doubt those guys are referencing barometric altimeter very often given the altitudes they fly at. Both the Hornet and F-16 have very accurate radar altimeters that do not incur errors such as incorrect altimeter setting, uneven terrain, or math in the cockpit to determine AGL altitude. I'd guess the QFE/QNH debate to be largely irrelevant in their case, however certainly could be an issue for civilian performers who don't have this equipment.
 
///AMG said:
I doubt those guys are referencing barometric altimeter very often given the altitudes they fly at. Both the Hornet and F-16 have very accurate radar altimeters that do not incur errors such as incorrect altimeter setting, uneven terrain, or math in the cockpit to determine AGL altitude. I'd guess the QFE/QNH debate to be largely irrelevant in their case, however certainly could be an issue for civilian performers who don't have this equipment.
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I know nothing about the pointy jet stuff, but how do Radar Altimeters (or as our Russian CP has us call it, radio altimeter) work when upside down? I can see your point when right side up, but curious about other times...
 
From the Thunderbird accident report:

According to the accident investigation board report the pilot, 31-year-old Captain Chris Stricklin, misinterpreted the altitude required to complete the "Split S" maneuver. He made his calculation based on an incorrect mean-sea-level altitude of the airfield. The pilot incorrectly climbed to 1,670 feet above ground level instead of 2,500 feet before initiating the pull down to the Split S maneuver.

When he realized something was wrong, the pilot put maximum back stick pressure and rolled slightly left to ensure the aircraft would impact away from the crowd should he have to eject. He ejected when the aircraft was 140 feet above ground - just 0.8 seconds prior to impact. He sustained only minor injuries from the ejection. There was no other damage to military or civilian property.

The aircraft, valued at about $20.4 million, was destroyed.

The difference in altitudes at Nellis and Mountain Home may have contributed to the pilot's error. The airfield at Nellis is at 2,000 feet whereas the one at Mountain Home is at 3,000 feet. It appears that the pilot reverted back to his Nellis habit pattern for s aplit second. Thunderbird commander Lt. Col. Richard McSpadden said Stricklin had performed the stunt around 200 times, at different altitudes during his year as a Thunderbird pilot.
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Hacker15e said:
I don't know what the showline was out there, and how it related to where the motorway was located, but once his nose was about 45 degrees nose low, he was committed either way. You can see the wings wobble as the jet is passing through the horizon, so he's in an accelerated stall/high AOA and pretty much just along for the ride at that point.

Reminds me of this one:
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Here's another similar one. Wayne Handley at Salinas. He's still flying, but a couple inches shorter. The humorous conversation that took place after the belly flop was about the strength of the airframe. Wayne said Giles had promised 35 g-s. He was conflicted that Giles delivered only 28. Miffed 'cause it was 'sposed to be stronger. Very, very happy that it wasn't since it turned out the aircraft was built (misbuilt) to almost perfectly absorb the 28 g-s of the the crash. That saved his life.

 
Crop Duster said:
Here's another similar one. Wayne Handley at Salinas. He's still flying, but a couple inches shorter. The humorous conversation that took place after the belly flop was about the strength of the airframe. Wayne said Giles had promised 35 g-s. He was conflicted that Giles delivered only 28. Miffed 'cause it was 'sposed to be stronger. Very, very happy that it wasn't since it turned out the aircraft was built (misbuilt) to almost perfectly absorb the 28 g-s of the the crash. That saved his life.

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If remember right he put it in beta on the down line and it wouldn't come out, so he couldn't arrest the sink rate. I'm still amazed he lived through that let alone walk again.
 
Stone Cold said:
I know nothing about the pointy jet stuff, but how do Radar Altimeters (or as our Russian CP has us call it, radio altimeter) work when upside down? I can see your point when right side up, but curious about other times...
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you are correct, they do not (at least in terms of your altitude above the ground)......which certainly could have potential in something like a split-S, if the guy doesn't note the altitude off the radalt before rolling inverted, and has the wrong altimeter setting on the baro altimeter. I don't do airshows, so I really am just guessing here, but I figured it was worth mentioning re: Blues/T-birds incidents, etc. I've also known someone to fly into the ground in broad daylight, VMC, while outside the bank angle limits of the radalt, so it isn't perfect, but at least a useful tool.
 
AAPalmTree said:
I think there is an "airshow mindset issue." Seems like a lot of stupid decisions by guys who are normally good decision makers. I have an F18 buddy that hates going to airshows for this reason. If he can he'll drop the plane off and go hang in a hotel or a friends house until after the show. I love airplanes but stay home when it comes to airshows.
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Based on my experience on the Airshow circuit, I'd say Airshow pilots are some of the most level headed and professional. I don't know your buddy or his Airshow experience or why he has such an aversion to it. Airshow pilots brief and rehearse every single ounce of control pressure, geometry and energy.
 
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