Airlines with Co-Domicile Ops

Maurus said:
@Derg I was referencing this line.



I took it as FAs and such being included in negotiations for pilots.
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Oh hell's no. I really don't give a deuce what the flight attendant's contract has in it, especially when it comes to negotiating.
 
amorris311 said:
@Seggy let me get this right. You think these guys should argue the baseline that management sets instead of set their own bar? Why not start high?
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You can set the bar as high as you want it, but if you do that when you are negotiating against Delta management you will quickly lose them, they will walk out of the room, and then they can and will royally screw you. This isn't negotiating a car sale, this is negotiating for the livelihood of folks. Now with incompetent management, yes, you have to play these games, but you are negotiating against very competent folks. Go ahead and play your games with Delta management, see how far that gets you. Or you can 'cut to the chase' and get better results.


We already have lost whether you believe it or not.
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I am well aware of that.

It wasn't that long ago when you were here. Do not forget that please.
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I am not. I am being realistic with what is going on. Stop using that for the 'catch all' when you disagree with my point of view.
 
Derg said:
Oh hell's no. I really don't give a deuce what the flight attendant's contract has in it, especially when it comes to negotiating.
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We are on the same page. The way @Seggy made his comment sounded like it should. "The FAs can do it so why not the pilots?"
 
Seggy said:
You can set the bar as high as you want it, but if you do that when you are negotiating against Delta management you will quickly lose them, they will walk out of the room, and then they can and will royally screw you. This isn't negotiating a car sale, this is negotiating for the livelihood of folks. Now with incompetent management, yes, you have to play these games, but you are negotiating against very competent folks. Go ahead and play your games, see how far that gets you. Or you can 'cut to the chase' and get better results.




I am well aware of that.



I am not. I am being realistic with what is going on. Stop using that for the 'catch all' when you disagree with my point of view.
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Friend to friend here: that's a little "Moak" for my taste and primarily one of the drivers for the labor unrest at Southernjets. The company will let you manage expectations straight back to the dark ages if you let them.
 
Derg said:
Friend to friend here: that's a little "Moak" for my taste and primarily one of the drivers for the labor unrest at Southernjets. The company will let you manage expectations straight back to the dark ages if you let them.
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Ask (or you can have @amorris311) the pre-merger Pinnacle guys how they are feeling about the SLI results because of unrealistic expectations.

Look, of course you need to fight for what you think is right, and there are parts of negotiations that are 'dead on arrival', but from a practical standpoint why would the company pay more than what the value is on the part of the contract you are negotiating?
 
Seggy said:
Ask (or you can have @amorris311) the pre-merger Pinnacle guys how they are feeling about the SLI results because of unrealistic expectations.

Look, of course you need to fight for what you think is right, and there are parts of negotiations that are 'dead on arrival', but from a practical standpoint why would the company pay more than what the value is on the part of the contract you are negotiating?
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Let's get down to basics.

What are you suggesting and why?
 
Derg said:
Let's get down to basics.

What are you suggesting and why?
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I am suggesting that the pre-merger Pinnacle MEC did not tell their pilots what they can realistically expect from the SLI. This isn't negotiating against the company, this is negotiations with other pilots. So, an unrealistic expectation was festered in the pre-merger Pinnacle Pilots, the SLI went completely the other way for them, and there is a lot of angst with those pilots because of it. My point of view is that if an honest assessment was made about 'how it was going to go down' early, people would have gotten over it a lot quicker than they are and people will be more rational with it. Yes, people will be pissed with how the SLI goes for years, but the pre-merger Pinnacle guys are taking it to a whole other level.

Now, with this co-domicle issue, I am NOT saying the Endeavor Pilots give it to free for the company or that they roll over in negotiations. What I am saying though is if the pilots tell themselves expect to get 60 million dollars back in the contract it will allow them to make a rational decision on what the negotiators bring back. If they draw a line in the sand and expect 90 million dollars back, when valued at 60 million, they are setting themselves up for disappointment. It isn't the company, it isn't the internet, it is the individual. This co-domicile issue is something the company wants, so let them pay for it. But they aren't going to pay tens of millions more for this provision than it is worth. Maybe a few million more, but not tens of millions.
 
ross9238 said:
Wouldn't you want to start at the 10 so that you can have the 2 that you want?
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With some management, yes, you do have to play those games in negotiations. But with a management team like Delta, you try that, you will quickly lose them, and be run over by them quickly.
 
So would it be more effective to go for QOL increases in the contract rather than lets say an increase in pay rate?
 
Thanks for the clarification.

My personal message is "if the company wants to open that part of the contract, make sure you bring something home".

On the SLI tip, it's a moot point. Decades later, we have people bitching about "this" book versus "that" book and it's just static at this point. Pilots are always going to bitch about SLI, some rightfully, some just need to kick rocks and get back to work.
 
Derg said:
My personal message is "if the company wants to open that part of the contract, make sure you bring something home".
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I completely agree. I think what the pilots can bring home with this is more than they have to 'give' here.

On the SLI tip, it's a moot point.
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You can tell that to the pre-merger Pinnacle Pilots :)
 
Nah, sometimes I have to filter out that crap at work.

Oh, and someone's writing book about how good and perfect things were prior. Aye yi yi...
 
@Seggy, I think our total contribution to the pot for our concessionary contract was in the $20m's. If you do the math for a $4/hr pay raise for 50% of our pilot group you don't even hit $3.5M a year at guarantee.

And it's a bit of a slap in the face when you log onto DL net and see Delta boasting about the BBBillions in profit and giving mainline employees ideas on how they can spend their profit sharing paycheck.
 
@Seggy

The reality of the SLI is what it is. The only thing that I don't get is why we have quotas?

If you were here, you would see that pre merger XJ guys are pretty upset too.



Quote: "I started the merger as an XJ DTW 900 CA, right now, I'm a DTW 200 FO. My premerger company still has all of its jets, yet last month I was sitting right seat to a Colgan guy who started the merger as an FO. How does something like that even happen?"

Bloch shouldn't have put any quotas. It should have just been straight ISL seniority to hold whatever. The quota doesn't matter. The XJ and 9E side are below quota.
 
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