Airlines with Co-Domicile Ops

Seggy said:
What about the guys where it is easier for them to get to LGA over JFK?
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Then bid LGA when it opens.

It's easier for me to commute DCA - LGA than DCA - JFK. I'm all for a LGA base. But if your gonna make it a co domicile, meaning I have to possibly go to JFK, which is a PITA, then I better have something extra in my pocket every 2 weeks.

This company has been take take take for far too long.

We lost 49 guys in January. We are expected to meet or exceed that number in February. When the summer hits, it's gonna be rough. Our QOL has taken a huge crap since 117 forced us all down to 11 days off to make up for the lost productivity.

It's about time we get something to show for our hard work.
 
Having parking passes for LGA and JFK could be handy, but I'd rather just have a separate LGA base. Co-domicile wouldn't really be that bad for just JFK-LGA. Then again, I'm a very small minority of the NYC pilot group (no pun intended), and what works great for me doesn't necessarily work so great for a lot of commuters without some serious protection on things like start and end airports or getting stuck overnight mid-trip. If the company wants co-domicile, they're going to have to do some real sweetening.
 
There's always a chance for contractual improvements when the company wants something.

A little more per diem or better scheduling rules in trade?

As R. Kelly says (apart from "AMMO pee on you, gurrrrrrl"), "There ain't nothing wrong, with a little quid pro quo"
 
Any talk of restoring vacation? Going on 4 years this June and get one week vacation from the company. That's pretty sad.
 
VX is non-union and has a co-domicile JFK-EWR as a "NYC" base. There is no union so there isn't negotiating, but management gave:

* JFK defined as the primary airport, EWR as the secondary airport
* Any pairing that starts in one airport must end in the same airport
* If JFK trip overnights in EWR, you still get hotel at EWR. Same for EWR trip that overnights in JFK = still get hotel
* Parking passes for both airports
* Short call reserve callout increased to 3 hrs (up from the usual 2 hrs in SFO/LAX)
* Reserve pilots called out to secondary airport (EWR) are given a transportation stipend of $60


I must admit the last one is very nice for reserves. Not a lot of companies out there paying for transportation for reserves to cover the satellite airports.


I'm concerned about reserves. If a reserve is living up in Brooklyn and has to cover a trip in EWR on short call, he's already hosed.
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Even if you have 3 hrs and the company paying you a $60 transportation stipend to go to EWR for that reserve trip? I know most of our guys who have JFK crashpads take the train (LIRR?) to the NYC Penn Station and then the NJ Rail to the EWR train station, and then the AirTrain to Terminal A. This takes 2 hrs tops from what I hear.
 
Seggy said:
VERY shortsighted gents. There are some folks who would LOVE a LGA domicile as it would shorten their drive to get to work, easier to commute to, etc.

Obviously, don't give it to the company for free, but don't be ridiculous and draw a line in the sand for pre-bankruptcy rates back to allow it.
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We have given way too much for this to be short sighted. I lol'd at our ATP rep because he voted for the concessions under the guise from Lee Moak that the SSP interview was a formality.

Our union keeps coming up with special things for small groups. We lost long call reserve, but since they are closing JFK 200 they allowed long call reserve to be awarded to those pilots.

Almost reminds me of the 2008 or 2009 short staffing debacle where they were going to allow dual qual of 900 guys at 900 rates onto the 200.

@Cherokee_Cruiser may remember that.

The union wants to give up the hats clause in the contract, to show good negotiating will. Ygbsm
 
Seggy said:
What happens if it goes to senior for them to hold as the company decides to only put a handful of crews there instead of opening up more trips out of there then?
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Wouldn't the same senior guys be bidding on the trips out of LGA? I really don't see a difference.

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Maurus said:
Wouldn't the same senior guys be bidding on the trips out of LGA? I really don't see a difference.

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The company may only staff it say with 10 crews if it is a separate base, while have a need for 30 crews at anyone time cover flying out if it is a co-domicile. So if you ware number 11 on the list to want LGA, you are screwed if it is separate.
 
Just got a call from @amorris311 attempting to bitch me out over this. He claims that American Eagle had the co-domicle valued at 60 million dollars (@Gonzo, this right?). Say Delta/Endeavor value it at the same rate +/- 10 million dollars, that still won't cover the pre-bankruptcy rates. Of course you can ask for more, but realistically, you will get what Delta values it.

Also, the way Delta is looking at this is that 'if our Flight Attendants can cover all three, then pilots should be able to do it as well'. That is the mentality you are fighting here. Find a way to get what you want with that mentality.
 
Seggy said:
Just got a call from @amorris311 attempting to bitch me out over this. He claims that American Eagle had the co-domicle valued at 60 million dollars (@Gonzo, this right?). Say Delta/Endeavor value it at the same rate +/- 10 million dollars, that still won't cover the pre-bankruptcy rates. Of course you can ask for more, but realistically, you will get what Delta values it.

Also, the way Delta is looking at this is that 'if our Flight Attendants can cover all three, then pilots should be able to do it as well'. That is the mentality you are fighting here. Find a way to get what you want with that mentality.
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They're not flight attendants.

Nor should the pilot working agreement baseline be what the flight attendants, mechanics, or gate agents are willing to endure.

Dude, don't go to the dark side. Remember, we're all in the same swamp.
 
Derg said:
They're not flight attendants nor should the pilot working agreement baseline be what the flight attendants, mechanics, or gate agents are willing to endure.
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I know that.

But that is the mentality management has when they negotiate these things.
 
Derg said:
They're not flight attendants.

Nor should the pilot working agreement baseline be what the flight attendants, mechanics, or gate agents are willing to endure.

Dude, don't go to the dark side. Remember, we're all in the same swamp.
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Seriously. If you use the logic to compare yourself to the FAs at my airline you will realize that you apparently are paid too much, work too little, have too many benefits, ect.
 
Please @Derg, don't be like @amorris311 and not read what I write :)

How did I go to the 'dark side'?

This is what I said....

Also, the way Delta is looking at this is that 'if our Flight Attendants can cover all three, then pilots should be able to do it as well'. That is the mentality you are fighting here. Find a way to get what you want with that mentality.
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It looks like the pilots at Endeavor can realistically look to get 60 million +/- 10 million (if @amorris311 is right with the figure he gave me). I don't think that will get them back to pre-bankruptcy rates, but, folks shouldn't vote 'no' and leave that money on the table.
 
Maurus said:
Seriously. If you use the logic to compare yourself to the FAs at my airline you will realize that you apparently are paid too much, work too little, have too many benefits, ect.
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I uhh, think I was arguing the opposite.

My "same swamp" comment was that the things we think we escaped at the regional level have a way of drifting over into the mainline corner.

Unless, of course, I'm misreading your response, I don't know.
 
@Seggy let me get this right. You think these guys should argue the baseline that management sets instead of set their own bar? Why not start high? Management starts realistically low and we (labor) have to build off that. We already have lost whether you believe it or not. I think it would be great if they start high and both find something in the middle. Maybe we should compare your contract to endeavor's contract. Since that's the basis of your argument. It wasn't that long ago when you were here. Do not forget that please.
 
@Derg I was referencing this line.

Nor should the pilot working agreement baseline be what the flight attendants, mechanics, or gate agents are willing to endure.
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I took it as the FA, mechanic, and gate agent contracts (or lack thereof) as being included in negotiations for pilots.

If you can get something good out of it then go for the co-domicile thing. I just know that I was pissed when I had to do it at AMF. Driving to SFO every morning instead of just going to OAK added a good 30-40 minutes of driving. There was no extra compensation for mileage and the base manager fought tooth and nail to not have to pay for the bridge tolls.

I also had to get up an extra 30-40 minutes earlier as a result. That along with the extra driving just helped add to the fatigue.

The idea that it "can" be done doesn't mean that it doesn't add expenses and fatigue to the employee.
 
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