Airline - Quality service and ticket prices

IFirst of all I think the reason JC is so successful is all the members perceive it as such a value. Good things ahead.

Now about all these bad encounters. Personally I'd have to say my positive passenger encounters out ran my negative by at least 10 to 1.

I had some horrendous passenger service deals. 7 1/2 hours ATL to LGA. 8 hours CVG to CVG on X-mas day (trying to go CVG-PVD). Many long weather delays. All the usual stuff. And virtually all of them ended with positive feedback from the customers.

I always enjoyed interacting with the passengers that asked "dumb" questions or made "dumb" comments. Not many people have jobs that are interesting enough that anybody wants to talk to them about it.

And when a passenger did get angry my first response was "tell me all about it". 9 times out of 10 they just want someone to listen to them and acknowledge their complaint. You don't even have to resolve it, just acknowledge it and most are happy, or at least a lot less angry. It gets back to communication again.


Don't you find more positive than negative as far as passenger interaction, Doug? Just curious.
 
Lets clarify

"The customer is always right", I stand by what I said.

What I mean by this is that even if you know the customer is wrong (which often that's the case) in the services business you have to do everything that is humanly possible to accommodate and to keep that costumer happy.

After all, guest what, without the customer you be out of business in no time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The airlines should strives to provide the best service possible.
even if you paid $100 or $1000 for a ticket.
 
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What I mean by this is that even if you know the customer is wrong (which often that's the case) in the services business you have to do everything that is humanly possible to accommodate and to keep that costumer happy.


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Nope. I disagree. You(a company) provide a service, which is needed otherwise your business wouldn't be there in the first place. But beyond that when companies start giving away their product in order to "keep the customer happy" all they are doing is costing the business money and in the long run OTHER custoemrs because the "base price" needs to go up to cover all the "freebies."

Companies have rules and when customers start bitching loudly to get around those rules and are given into that is not customer service that is extortion.
 
But the thing is that even if it costs money NOW to help satisfy a customer, it will likely save it in the long run. One bad experience and that person will tell 100 people, a good experience and they will tell 3 or 4 people. You don't need 100 people getting a bad opinion of your company. It might not be quite the same thing in this type of biz, but in most, it pays off for you more to keep one customer happy then it does to save your company dollars and let them tell 100 people how bad your company is.
 
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Companies have rules and when customers start bitching loudly to get around those rules and are given into that is not customer service that is extortion.

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a) The airline industry is a failing industry. There is no better report card for how you are doing than "out of business".

b) The best customer service company I ever worked for (no it wasn't my legacy airline) had a golden rule. "Follow all the rules until they get in the way of customer service, then forget the rules, because service is number one."

c) Giving your customers more than they ask for or need or that the rules allow will grow your business. Forgoing customer service for the sake of some "rules" will shrink your business.

d) Companies have "rules"? No, companies have products or services, period. Government agencies have rules. That's why private industry will always outperform government bureaucracies. And private industries that act like government agencies will fail.

e) Service is all an airline has to give. If they ever expect to raise their prices they'd better be giving some kick**s service.
 
But we're not talking about a customer we're talking about a scammer ... that person that raised hell and got what they wanted is still going to go around telling the story about how bad things were and how much they had to complain to finally get what they wanted. That person is not goingto go around saying "oh, they did this for me ..."
 
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What I mean by this is that even if you know the customer is wrong (which often that's the case) in the services business you have to do everything that is humanly possible to accommodate and to keep that costumer happy.


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Nope. I disagree. You(a company) provide a service, which is needed otherwise your business wouldn't be there in the first place. But beyond that when companies start giving away their product in order to "keep the customer happy" all they are doing is costing the business money and in the long run OTHER custoemrs because the "base price" needs to go up to cover all the "freebies."

Companies have rules and when customers start bitching loudly to get around those rules and are given into that is not customer service that is extortion.

[/ QUOTE ]Pilot602

I respect your opinion but here is where we disagree.

If xxx airline charge me $150 from Boston to Los Angeles
how is it my fault that they are not making any money?
I'm breaking any rules by expecting to get a decent services?

Decent Services= get be from point A to point B on time.
Don't lose my baggage.
If something goes wrong threat me with respect, don't tell me that I should no complain because I'm only paying $150 bucks.

we live in a capitalist society supply and demand set the prices the airlines are flighting for customers.

if one airline is making a profit charging $150 dollars and the others can't match that price, that's their problem. they should go out of business.

There is to much competition right now and some airlines will have to go out of business. after that I think that prices will stabilize again.
 
Flyover ...

You can provide good customer service without "breaking the rules" or giving away the shop ... but people automatically assume because they can yell that they should get everything they want, when they want it.

Again .. refer to my "meal" example.

I'm not defending airlines they have A LOT of work to do in terms of customer service but in the same regard people need to realize that when it comes to "customer service" just because they can yell doesn't make them right.
 
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What I mean by this is that even if you know the customer is wrong (which often that's the case) in the services business you have to do everything that is humanly possible to accommodate and to keep that costumer happy.

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I see. So then, Southwest should be losing money hand over fist, right? After all, if you whine too much to them, they tell where you can stick it.

Oh, wait! They made a boatload of money.

Business is about return on investment. If a customer costs more in investment than the return, screw 'em. Southwest understands this.
 
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But the thing is that even if it costs money NOW to help satisfy a customer, it will likely save it in the long run. One bad experience and that person will tell 100 people, a good experience and they will tell 3 or 4 people. You don't need 100 people getting a bad opinion of your company. It might not be quite the same thing in this type of biz, but in most, it pays off for you more to keep one customer happy then it does to save your company dollars and let them tell 100 people how bad your company is.

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Exactly!! One disgruntled customer can do tremendous damage to a company's brand just by telling his friends (who will tell their friends) about his experience, no matter how unreasonable he may be. I once read a study which concluded that, on average, it costs about 3-5X as much to get a new customer as it does to retain an existing customer. It is worth it to keep the customer happy, even if he seems to you to be behaving unreasonably.

Customers aren't always going to be right, but if you want to stay in business for the long term, you better figure out how to treat the customer as if he is always right.

MF
 
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What I mean by this is that even if you know the customer is wrong (which often that's the case) in the services business you have to do everything that is humanly possible to accommodate and to keep that costumer happy.

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I see. So then, Southwest should be losing money hand over fist, right? After all, if you whine too much to them, they tell where you can stick it.

Oh, wait! They made a boatload of money.

Business is about return on investment. If a customer costs more in investment than the return, screw 'em. Southwest understands this.

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Did you read my last post?
 
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Customers aren't always going to be right, but if you want to stay in business for the long term, you better figure out how to treat the customer as if he is always right.

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Southwest has been around for what, 30 years now? They don't have a problem telling customers they're wrong, and where they can go.

I deal with clients, too, you know. I tell them when they are being unreasonable, and if they say, we'll never work with you again, I say fine, if that's the way you want to be. I can't give you what you are looking for, so it's better for you to just find someone who will.

Know what I get? Shocked silence, and I love it.

And then they very quickly retract their statement about never working with me again.

It's not like I don't have competition. It's just that I'd rather spend my time keeping my good customers happy instead of wasting it on a guy who will never be happy, who will whine and complain the live long day.

He can take his business elsewhere, because it's not worth the effort to keep.
 
I'm going to chime in, Just be forewarned this is how I see it.

People want cheap flights. In order for Airlines to do that they need to prioritize what they are going to offer the Passengers. You can't have a cheap flight and all the amenities. Things like lost baggage and being on-time/late. I think for the most part is out of the hands of the airlines. Things come up. You can pay a dirt cheap price but don't expect much if at all anything. They just might bring out the cattle prods while you are in the holding pen waiting to board. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Airlines listen to customers. Customers want cheap fairs so the airlines are giving it to them.

I think the only thing you should demand and expect is safety. I would pay more just for that. I wouldn't even care about amenities.
 
Tell ya what, guys. Work for Disney for a few years, then come back and say "the customer is alwasy right." I bet you won't be able to say it with a straight face. I too followed this mantra before I actually WORKED in customer service positions. Then I was hit with every scammer from here to China. About 5% of the complaints you get are legit, the rest are people looking for a free ride (this is theme parks, not CS in general). I've even bent over backwards, broken a couple of "rules" (trust me they were RULES), got called into a meeting for giving away too much and reprimanded, and the guy STILL said I was "unprofessional" and "unaccomodating." Why? 'Cause I couldn't get his ticket refunded or his hotel room comped. That's what this guy had his mind set to, and he would settle for nothing less. He was happy when he left me, but obviously changed his mind on the way out of the park.

Now, I agree that airlines have a LONG way to go in the realm of customer service. Most of that has to do with communication b/w departments (see other thread on darn near the exact subject). I also agree that $280 is a low fare, HOWEVER it's the fare the airline charged. The level of service should be no different for people that paid $500 or $280. I do NOT think that the price of a ticket should be a passenger's excuse though. Saying "I paid $280 for a ticket, and I deserve better service" doesn't cut it with me. How about "I trusted this airline to get me from point a to point b comfortably, and it fell short." That's a valid arguement. Otherwise it's the same as saying "I paid $1.50 for this bowl of soup, and it's not the same as the $5 bowl of soup over there."
 
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Flyover ...

You can provide good customer service without "breaking the rules" or giving away the shop ... but people automatically assume because they can yell that they should get everything they want, when they want it.

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I guess one of the things I don't understand is the general tone of most of this thread. In my experience airline customers are like most others. 98% are very reasonable people who respond well to being treated with respect. This in spite of the fact that travel is often stressful with vacation and business plans often riding on the airlines operating on schedule.

Most of the angry people I've had to deal with were sent to me by agents who specialized in pissing off customers. They are simply people with problems that no one will listen to. Listen to them for a little while and they are happy customers. What's so hard about that? Communicate with them well in the first place and you usually won't get to the point where you have to handle their anger.

I don't get the hostility towards customers. Without them all this talk about airline careers is moot. Maybe that's where this is coming from, with airline careers struggling we are looking to take it out on the customer, just like they look to take their frustrations out on us. Frustrated employees serving frustrated customers. Explosive combination. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/argue.gif
 
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Airlines listen to customers. Customers want cheap fairs so the airlines are giving it to them.

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That is total Bull S***t . /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

The airlines are lowering their prices because of competition.

If it was up to the airlines they will be charging the most they can get away with.
 
Can we all just agree on the idea of "You get what you pay for" and kinda move along? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I can only use examples from my own business. Running this website ain't cheap by any means, and in fact, it looks like I'm going to have to upgrade the server again very soon.

The costs and personal investment of running this website are well outside of the scope of "a friendly hobby to tinker with on off days" and it depends on advertising sales in order to stay solvent.

I tell advertisers, with a straight face, that my users come here for the straight poop with no spin from thousands of voices, many with differing opinions, and I don't accept ads from just any company because I can lose credibility in a New York minute.

Advertise here, you'll see results.

I charge accordingly because for every one ad that I accept for circulation on the site, there are probably five companies that I told to 'take a hike' or 'I know you're paying $X/month for that site over at http://www.tripod.com/savanna/SunsetStrip/id?=2349f/blah-blah/jinko/janko/~MyFlyingPage/index.htm (not a real site) but this ain't it and no don't ask me about your "pay-per-lead" program either because I can't walk into a pharmacy, grab some aspirin and promise to pay the druggist IF my headache is cured.'

It's a two-way street. If passengers are demanding mega low airfares, they're going to have to accept the occasional meltdown because it's goign to be a barebone skeleton crew and the entire chain of resources that it takes to run a fast, clean, on-time, rewarding operation takes loot.

If I want a $.49 chateaubriand steak, better prepare myself for some gristle.
 
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Customers aren't always going to be right, but if you want to stay in business for the long term, you better figure out how to treat the customer as if he is always right.

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Southwest has been around for what, 30 years now? They don't have a problem telling customers they're wrong, and where they can go.

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I seriously doubt that Southwest makes a regular practice of telling its customers to go f@$& themselves. You can draw reasonable lines with people and still have them go away happy. You just have to be able to say "no" politely, with a smile; and be willing to offer constructive solutions. This is what Southwest seems to do well, and what many other carriers do not do well. As others have said, good communication is the key.

With respect to Pilot0602's hypothetical, I would ask which is preferable: (1) taking the risk that you are given a free meal to a jerk; or (2) taking the risk that you will alienate a good customer with a legitimate grievance by giving him or her the third degree regarding the complaint? A business which regularly tends toward option (2) will not be a business for very long.

MF
 
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With respect to Pilot0602's hypothetical, I would ask which is preferable: (1) taking the risk that you are given a free meal to a jerk; or (2) taking the risk that you will alienate a good customer with a legitimate grievance by giving him or her the third degree regarding the complaint? A business which regularly tends toward option (2) will not be a business for very long.


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It wasn't a hypothetical I saw it happen night after night for three years. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif And you know what, two of the thre restaurants I worked for are out of business .... draw your own conclusions. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
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But we're not talking about a customer we're talking about a scammer ... that person that raised hell and got what they wanted is still going to go around telling the story about how bad things were and how much they had to complain to finally get what they wanted. That person is not goingto go around saying "oh, they did this for me ..."

[/ QUOTE ] I'm not talking about your one specific story, I am talking about in general. When I worked for Allstate, my boss told me right up front that I did NOT have to take abuse from any customer, that a customer that would go that far was not worth the business they would cause us to lose. BUT OTHER THAN THAT-it was my job to go out of my way, be as helpful as possible and do everything I can to make that customer walk out of my office feeling good about the people they chose to bring their business to. And I did it with a smile, remembering how frustrating it can be to be a consumer, espeically when you don't understand the "insides" of the business like an empolyee does. Our office's reputation for taking care of our customers far exceeded any complaints we had from the occasional abusive moran who would flip out over anything.

The thing is, when is the last time you got off a plane feeling like they really appreciated your business? For me, never. The last flight I was on, the FA looked at me like I'd asked her for a kidney, when all I asked for was a pillow. But I guess I should just suck it up and say it's my problem to deal with since I got a cheap price on my flight? It's not like I am going to write an angry letter to management, but I remember that attitude, and I remember the mess I was in when I was the one that had the missed connection.

Flying is a bigger deal then getting cold french fries with dinner. At least you can move on faster when you just go poor service some where else. But when you get the poor service on a flight, when you miss your flight and get stuck some where, it has a major impact on your entire schedule, your finances, your drop off/pick up arrangements, etc. and if you have kids with you and then you aren't allowed access to your luggage--well that's even worse! It is a HUGE ordeal to go through that! Sure it happens, and it's not always some one's fault. And I have never put up a big stink about it, but it's not easy to just walk away after being given a list of hotels you can stay at, at your expense, with no personal items, and not feel some resentment and frustration at the whole situation.

And before you say (again), that a person that travels should just expect something to go wrong and be responsible enough to prepare for it---let me remind you that there is no warning that you do not have access to luggage. I had NO idea, if I had, I would have carried personal items with me. Why don't they just give you some basic company guidelines or something when you buy your ticket? And I also had NO idea that you'd have to pay for your own food and hotel when you get stuck some where. So I guess it's my fault for travelling and not being prepared? Well--if you expect every flying customer to have the money to pay for a hotel and extra meals if needed, then you are going to lose a lot of customers. Some people just can not afford to cover those extra expenses, so now with what I know after having been through it, the next time I think of travelling, I just won't do it, unless I have an extra $100 to cover that "just in case" layover bill. If every one starts realizing that is how it is, airlines just might end up with even less customers. And that's not going to help any body.
 
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