Airline Pilot

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.....Airline pilots are still one of the highest paid professions in the United States. That won't change until someone invents teleporting

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Better start watching the news.

No, nothing on "teleportation" yet, but lots of information on "wage concessions" and "pension relief" the last few years. That's kind of like teleporting money out of pilot's bank accounts.

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The salary of a Regional F/O job sucks, but it's a starting point. You have to have the determination to work your way up the chain.

If they were to pay 80k/yr for a first year Regional minimums would skyrocket because everyone would love to be an airline pilot. A lot of guys would love to fly, but a lot of them can't spend 50k on ratings and earn 18k while raising a family or even themselves.
 
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Airline pilots are still one of the highest paid professions in the United States.

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I'd say MAJOR airline pilots are still one of the highest paid, those $18K averages at regionals tend to pull the overall airline pilot pay down a bit. I know guys on the ramp at SWA that make more than regional FOs, and SWA isn't known for it's high wages compared to other airlines.
 
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SWA isn't known for it's high wages compared to other airlines.

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Actually, I believe that post-concessions, the 737 captains at SWA top out higher than the ones at several legacy carriers.

So it ain't just pilot pay.
 
Yeah, I was referring to non-pilot positions. Tell an FA that SWA is up there in pay, and you'll get slapped.....
 
I thought lots of progress was being made until I've seen some of the posts in this thread. "I'd love to fly a jet for $70K!" "I'd flying a Boeing for anything, $70K is reasonable!" "It's ok to make $20K a year, gotta start somewhere!"

I see much work must be done to educate young pilots this is a career, not a hobby for some people. Yes, we all love to fly airplanes. Me as much as the next person. But $20K, and even $70K, doesn't cut it in the year 2005. It won't cut it in 2010. And it sure won't cut it in 2030 and later. This is a CAREER. Pilots have families to support just as much as the next person.

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I thought lots of progress was being made until I've seen some of the posts in this thread. "I'd love to fly a jet for $70K!" "I'd flying a Boeing for anything, $70K is reasonable!" "It's ok to make $20K a year, gotta start somewhere!"

I see much work must be done to educate young pilots this is a career, not a hobby for some people. Yes, we all love to fly airplanes. Me as much as the next person. But $20K, and even $70K, doesn't cut it in the year 2005. It won't cut it in 2010. And it sure won't cut it in 2030 and later. This is a CAREER. Pilots have families to support just as much as the next person.

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Yep. Doug says it best..."The new-ness of the airplane wears off in a couple of months. After that it's about QOL."
 
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I thought lots of progress was being made until I've seen some of the posts in this thread. "I'd love to fly a jet for $70K!" "I'd flying a Boeing for anything, $70K is reasonable!" "It's ok to make $20K a year, gotta start somewhere!"

I see much work must be done to educate young pilots this is a career, not a hobby for some people. Yes, we all love to fly airplanes. Me as much as the next person. But $20K, and even $70K, doesn't cut it in the year 2005. It won't cut it in 2010. And it sure won't cut it in 2030 and later. This is a CAREER. Pilots have families to support just as much as the next person.

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[/ QUOTE ]FlyChicaga, this is not meant as a flame. But, have you ever refused a FO position because it wasn't paying more than $70K? I gotta agree with Kell and Lloyd, yes pilots deserve better pay, but to me as a lowly commercial student $70K for a regional FO job considering the state of the industry right now doesn't sound too bad.
 
To us, $70k is not much.

We make more than that (I won't go into specifics, don't ask), and we're losing our house because we can't afford it. Our 30 year old, 2400 sq' mansion
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. We'll be relocating this summer.

It's all relative.

Keep in mind, pay is compensation. Compensation for everything the job entails. Being personally responsible for hundreds of lives, being away from home 2-5 days a week, etc.
 
I'd also throw in health insurance, per diem, flight benefits, profit sharing, 401K match etc as compensation. For me, schedules that allow a commute (if necessary) and a normal amount of time with my family (instead of using two of my days off to get to and from them) also fall under my own personal definition of "compensation." A lot of times people focus TOO much on "how much will I make per year" and not enough on the other stuff. That's the reason why my buddy who's living the dream right now has a ton of 16 hour days a week, but hey, the pilot group got a minute pay raise out of the deal and quicker upgrades.
 
I understand that for a veteran pilot who has been in the profession for awhile, 70K isn't much. And, in no way do I believe that 70K should be a cap. But, my post was in response to a lot of people, not just FlyChicaga, who seem to want all the newbie pilots to "put their foot down", tell airline management to shove it, and refuse FO positions at regionals if their wages aren't above a certain level. IMO, New-hire FOs just aren't in a position to do that. From the pilots who have "been there and done that", have they done just that? Did they refuse their first FO jobs just because the salary wasn't in the high 5 figures?

I guess I'm just saying not to bag on people who say that they'd like to fly a jet for 70K. I'm pretty sure they don't mean that they would want that salary for life. At least they aren't saying that they'd do it for free or that they would pay to do it.
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Yes, we all must start somewhere. I won't even get into my case, because I was an anomoly. (sp?) I am just happy that I didn't a) PFT, b) not get paid something during training, c) sign a training contract. At either job.

The problem is that nowadays pilots are thinking it is completely OK to make $70-90 as a MAX SALARY for 18 years of service flying a jet. That is ridiculous. That is maybe ok for 5 years, 6 years... but more than that, particularly for those who have families to support with this career, that is outrageous.

I have a unique perspective since I'm only turning 24, have no kids, no wife, nothing tying me down. That $35K as a second year FO might be livable for someone who is 24, right out of college. But for someone who is 35-40 years old, with two kids, a mortgage, a wife who is a stay at home mom, and car payments (etc), $35K a year doesn't cut it too well. Neither does $70K in the grand scheme of things.

It just shouldn't be OK in our minds that flying a 70 or 90 seat jet at a regional for $70K a year with 10 years of service is decent. Most majors pay their second or third year FOs that range of pay.

I am way to exhausted and fading fast to get into it anymore right now. Don't need to get all worked up before sleep. Ugh.
 
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The problem is that nowadays pilots are thinking it is completely OK to make $70-90 as a MAX SALARY for 18 years of service flying a jet. That is ridiculous. That is maybe ok for 5 years, 6 years... but more than that, particularly for those who have families to support with this career, that is outrageous.


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The problem is that nowadays pilots are thinking it is completely OK to make $70-90 as a MAX SALARY for 18 years of service flying a jet. That is ridiculous.

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Ding, ding, ding, ding!

Szluka gets the kewpie doll!

You gotta pay your dues, and that means initial pay is low. But it is absolute BS that people think, hey, $70K to fly a jet that's worth tens of millions of dollars around is okay.

Hell, man, that's the base for a lot of guys doing sales. And if a sales rep has a bad day, someone doesn't get an order completed, or someone doesn't get his widgets on time.

A pilot has a bad day, and people can die.

I ain't even going to touch the absurdity of people who get at least ten times that $70K saying that their employees are overpaid.
 
Maybe I should have been a doctor? Maybe not.

My cousin is an anesthesiologist.. He is in his 12th year of post high school education
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and has two years left of Residency before he will be certified to practice independently. His yearly salary is currently $42,000.

You have to pay your dues in any profession you seek. Some people think a doctor goes to medical school, gets out and brings in half a million a year. In reality it takes about 12 years of education (all which you are having to pay for), and another 3-5 years in residency before the money rolls in.

How many years, actually how many months did you spend getting all your ratings? Thats the great thing about flying.. it takes little time to get the education and you can immediately start building time and seniority.

I dont know about you..but I'd rather be flying for 15 years making money instead of sitting in a lecture hall taking notes and living in a hospital.

I say if you love flying and want to make it a career, then go for it. If you want to be a pilot to make a bundle of money then go jump out of an airplane... you'll just be miserable. If you want to be a doctor to make a bundle of money then jump out also...because you wont be any less upset for a long long time.

Pursue what you love to do...it will be worth more than money.
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Yeah, don't misunderstand me. Regional pay is low, but if TOP OUT was $70K and I had to invest this much time and money, I'd probably go back to theme parks. I agree that you have to start somewhere, but it would be nice to end somewhere better.
 
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Yeah, don't misunderstand me. Regional pay is low, but if TOP OUT was $70K and I had to invest this much time and money, I'd probably go back to theme parks. I agree that you have to start somewhere, but it would be nice to end somewhere better.

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IMO, start out pay is never high, but is should darn well be livable. 18K for starting? Sheesh, a burger flipper makes more than that. A higher minimum that's livable is something that we should shoot for.
 
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Hell, man, that's the base for a lot of guys doing sales. And if a sales rep has a bad day, someone doesn't get an order completed, or someone doesn't get his widgets on time.

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And if he doesn't make sales he doesn't get paid 70K for very long. A really good salesman is almost priceless to a company.

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A pilot has a bad day, and people can die.

I ain't even going to touch the absurdity of people who get at least ten times that $70K saying that their employees are overpaid.

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This argument is always a fast trip to a deadend. A) Nobody gets paid anything if your company can't make a profit flying airplanes.
B) The real worth of a job is almost never realized by anyone, some overpaid some under. Everybody has blue-in-the-face arguments about why their job is worth blah, blah, blah. If you want to get paid a lot have a skill in low supply and high demand. If you look over your shoulder and there's ten guys behind you that want your job (and can do it), you could be in trouble.
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So why'd you stick with flying the line for so long and not get into the management side of things, flyover? It seems to me you're great at concocting explanations about why management does this or that, so why didn't you just go all the way and leave your job as a line pilot, leave the union and go give them a hand directly? You seem to agree with top end managements screwups and excuses, so I guess I just don't understand why you stayed in this profession as long as you did.
 
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And if he doesn't make sales he doesn't get paid 70K for very long. A really good salesman is almost priceless to a company.

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Tell that to senior management that routinely lays off or fires reps who say, you know what, I'm bringing in ten to twenty times what you're paying me, I want more of the pie.

I've seen it happen. A friend of mine brought in about $10 million in revenue during the dot com boom days. He got about $150K and said, you've got to pay me more because I'm worth more.

That got kicked up to senior management. One day, he found that his access card didn't work anymore. They didn't even have the balls to tell him in person that he was fired.

Of course, the tools running the company found out that he was worth the extra money and then some when the clients he worked with didn't renew their contracts and their company went bye bye.

I say that every employee ought to get every single penny they can from their employer for as long as they can. Why? Because to them, you're just like a paper clip or a stapler. As soon as they can find someone who will do it for cheaper -- even though it may not be better -- you're gone.
 
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