Airline Pilot Lifespan

ATN_Pilot said:
Clearly I would be much safer with a 19 year old kid with 8,000 fewer hours keeping an eye on me. ;)
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To be fair, if he's actually competent in light piston twins, at least statistically, you probably would be.
Pa31s and C402s usually eat a turbine pilot for lunch.
 
Rocketman99 said:
Meh. You can keep your domestic crap. I didn't become an airline pilot to layover in such exotic locales as Moline or basically anywhere else we fly at the "regionals." I've hated that kind flying from pretty much day 1. I definitely am a fan of working as little as possible however.
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And sit in your room watching Netflix and eating Taco Bell? :)

(To whom it may concern: Sorry bro, I had to! :))
 
I have not seen the spreadsheet or reports. Do they break the numbers down by gender, noting the N of each gender in the sample? Do they break it down by years of service, years flying domestic, years flying international ?
 
scooter2525 said:
I uhh... Huh. Yeah I'm sure you can't handle that type without an instructor.
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In all fairness, popping a motor single pilot in a piston twin isn't exactly the same as an engine failure in a 717. I'd think a checkout should be sufficient to be signed off by the insurance carrier though.
 
CaptBill said:
What you don't see in the numbers is that for every hour you ride a Harley, your lifespan goes up 4 months and 7 days. Really, It's true..... I heard that from my buddy Walt, the Harley Salesman.
I figure I'll live about 119 years or so.....
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I thought it was mileage related. 1 mile = 1 hour of extended lifespan. Oh wait, that's a metric measurement, sorry. :)
 
milleR said:
In all fairness, popping a motor single pilot in a piston twin isn't exactly the same as an engine failure in a 717.
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Everyone who's flown a 717 once did engine failures in light twins. A quick refresher during a checkout should be plenty. Insurance companies are off their rocker.
 
I understand why they do it. In the off chance that something happens, it looks good to a jury full of rubes when they can say "look, we made him fly with an instructor." But that's the problem with the court system. A bunch of ignorant twits are responsible for deciding whether the insurance company needs to pay up. That's also a large part of the reason that it's so prohibitively expensive to buy a new airplane nowadays. What was once priced at two times the national medium income is now priced at ten times the median income, and a lot of that is covering litigation risk.
 
HRDiva said:
I have not seen the spreadsheet or reports. Do they break the numbers down by gender, noting the N of each gender in the sample? Do they break it down by years of service, years flying domestic, years flying international ?
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It's not exactly public and only has information pertaining to SouthernJets.

There is also no differentiation between international and domestic either.

Personally, domestic, for me, can be an asskicker because I have no built-in big hunk of a layover to make up for any sleep deficit. Domestically, holy cow, I've carried a deficit for days that I was unable to recover from.

Hell, I still find myself asking "Hot damn, FAR 117 was an improvement?" but I'm sure it's simply my companies interpretation of it. I hope.
 
Derg said:
It's not exactly public and only has information pertaining to SouthernJets.

There is also no differentiation between international and domestic either.

Personally, domestic, for me, can be an asskicker because I have no built-in big hunk of a layover to make up for any sleep deficit. Domestically, holy cow, I've carried a deficit for days that I was unable to recover from.

Hell, I still find myself asking "Hot damn, FAR 117 was an improvement?" but I'm sure it's simply my companies interpretation of it. I hope.
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If you don't think that part 117 isn't the biggest improvement to both safety and QOL for domestic flying since the inception of flight, then you never had to do a 4 day worth of reduced rest overnights while working 16 hour duty days.


Really. Seriously. You can't possibly understand how big of an improvement part 117 was unless you've experienced the old schedules that regionals used to have. 6 leg days with 16 hours of dutty followed by 5 hours of sleep? Normal. Don't like it? Call in fatigued, but before you do, but you'll have your pay docked for doing so.
 
jtrain609 said:
Really. Seriously. You can't possibly understand how big of an improvement part 117 was unless you've experienced the old schedules that regionals used to have. 6 leg days with 16 hours of dutty followed by 5 hours of sleep? Normal. Don't like it? Call in fatigued, but before you do, but you'll have your pay docked for doing so.
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I was looking through some old pairings the other day from my previous gig (long before 117) and was amazed that I flew those, and regularly too. Granted I have pretty easy schedule now, but still... some of those trips look brutal on paper and yet were considered "good" trips.
 
Same here. I've been putting my old logbooks in LogTen Pro the last few days, and some of these trips look awful. I'd probably just call in sick if I had to do this crap today.
 
I guess I was lucky then. In 7.5 years of airline flying, I've only been truly fatigued once, and was because of my own doing. And once fatigued doing corporate (company doing).

Schedules have gotten somewhat worse for me since 117, basically longer duty times for the same credit it was before 117. Best thing about 117 though is the 10 hours/8 behind the door. I rarely had 8 hours when that was legal, so wasn't much of a change for me. But I realize this helped out many others that had what jtrain described.

As far as the corporate fatigue story. We were told to fly 4 legs, Houston Carlsbad Houston Carlsbad Houston. That sucked.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
This is just what I'm renting right now until I buy. Wanted to rent the Baron, but apparently insurance won't allow it on their policy unless you're with an instructor.
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I wanted to rent a 172 a while back, and it required a 5 hour checkout with an instructor first. No thanks!
 
Derg said:
It's not exactly public and only has information pertaining to SouthernJets.

There is also no differentiation between international and domestic either.

Personally, domestic, for me, can be an asskicker because I have no built-in big hunk of a layover to make up for any sleep deficit. Domestically, holy cow, I've carried a deficit for days that I was unable to recover from.

Hell, I still find myself asking "Hot damn, FAR 117 was an improvement?" but I'm sure it's simply my companies interpretation of it. I hope.
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Unfortunately, it kinda is.

Put "delta pilot deaths" into google and the first document that comes up is that pdf file.

Put "delta pilot seniority list" into google and the first 8 hits, 3 of them are pdf files with Delta's seniority list from 2002 and 2007.
 
dasleben said:
I wanted to rent a 172 a while back, and it required a 5 hour checkout with an instructor first. No thanks!
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Where was this? Are you sure it wasn't a G1000 Cessna 172?

Flight schools near me require 1 hr ground school and 1.5 hr C172 for a regular checkout.

But for a G1000 Cessna 172, they require 4 hrs ground school and then 4 hrs in the plane for a VFR checkout or 6-8 hrs for an IFR checkout.
 
Rocketman99 said:
Meh. You can keep your domestic crap. I didn't become an airline pilot to layover in such exotic locales as Moline or basically anywhere else we fly at the "regionals." I've hated that kind flying from pretty much day 1. I definitely am a fan of working as little as possible however.
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Cheers to that from a 15 hour BIS overnight.
 
jtrain609 said:
If you don't think that part 117 isn't the biggest improvement to both safety and QOL for domestic flying since the inception of flight, then you never had to do a 4 day worth of reduced rest overnights while working 16 hour duty days.


Really. Seriously. You can't possibly understand how big of an improvement part 117 was unless you've experienced the old schedules that regionals used to have. 6 leg days with 16 hours of dutty followed by 5 hours of sleep? Normal. Don't like it? Call in fatigued, but before you do, but you'll have your pay docked for doing so.
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Yup. It has absolutely changed this job, especially at a regional level. As someone with mid level seniority my trips have actually gotten MORE productive too. I just get to sleep on overnights. My company has left the 30 in 7 metric up on our calendars and at least once per month I'm 3-4 hours above that.
 
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