Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Flight control philosophy? What in particular do you hate about the Airbus?
Airbus is getting rather nasty
- Thread starter Cal Goat
- Start date
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Boeing has FBW technology in some of its aircraft, too. It's not a necessarily a bad thing. So with what you are inferring, the 717 is a real airplane while the A320 is not?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
First, any airplane is crashable. Now that having been said and out of the way,
No. The Airbus would have alpha protection, and if you still are clueless, as speed bleeds off, alpha floor activates and then TOGA lock. You will not stall.
Boeing aircraft, with the authothrottles engaged, would also not let the aircraft stall by adding power once the speed reaches a certain level.
However, what I don't know is what happens in a Boeing if authrottles are off and you are handflying and then carelessly the speed bleeds and you go near stall speeds. The fact that Boeings have stick shaker would imply that the autothrottles won't help you, the pilot must lower the nose and add manual power. Boeing folks please correct me if I'm wrong.
Not so in Airbus. Even with authothrust off, your thrust levers can be at idle and if you are flying with the speed dangerously bleeding off, alpha floor is still available, and regardless of thrust level position, alpha floor will engage and then hold toga lock. In normal law, which is 99.999999999999% of the time, the Airbus doesn't stall. Hence, no sidestick shaker.
Alternate law gets a bad rap too, but all it means is enough systems have failed to prevent the flight computers from providing the protection envelops available under normal law. In alternate law, you still have a low speed cue and a high speed cue (like a CRJ). A checkerboard, if you will. In alternate law, the aircraft can still be flown normally, but with caution (the same caution you'd give in a CRJ, for example).
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
I can't speak for the 777/787, but you are correct for the 757/767. The jet will stall when the autothrottles are disengaged. In fact, it'll stall if you're hand flying with them engaged. The airplane has a very basic "alpha" protection mode, but it's only activated when the autopilot and autothrottles are engaged.
757 doesn't have a stick pusher, either. Just has autoslats.
To be fair, I don't consider it more "manly" to fly a stallable jet (some people might get off on that, though!). If I'm tired, I'm all about using the autothrottles as much as possible for speed protection.
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
Aircraft in American "colors" always looks stupid and extremely dirty to me. To me its just one more example of why American sucked so bad (still do-yes, I am a stock holder) is that everybody changed color over the years except American. Get with the time. I don't care if it saves 2 cents a minute on gas-YOUR LIVERY IS UGLY. End of rant.Oh please, Boeing made this hawkward thing:
The newer -200s sure fly nice, though.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I think A Life Aloft explained it pretty well earlier.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
You're wrong. At least on some Boeings. The 717 has "low speed protection," that automatically engages the autothrottles to keep you above the footer (a safe margin above stall speed). The only way it won't work is if you actually disconnect the autopilot paddles, which would only be in an emergency when the AP is malfunctioning, anyway.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
AA is coming out with a new re-branded, post BK livery. So watch for it real soon!
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
I think the opposite -- most of the current liveries did not change for the better, and AA's current scheme is a throwback to a classier time.
Of course, I also prefer United's brady bunch tri-color scheme and Continental's red-and-gold scheme. The multi-stripe horizontal cheat line is the common theme in all of these. Guess it just reflects what I saw in the 70s as I was really becoming an airplane enthusiast.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Sadly, the bare aluminum is going away with the 777-300. It's been painted two-tone gray/white. This is probably what their A320 and 737MAXXX²+ deliveries will be as well.
That will go perfectly with my andonized flashlight. With any luck they'll put "AA" on the back like a tail code! Maybe some "ghost grey" AA-birds, too...tacticool FTW!@ They'll never see us coming.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
There are at least 50 people who I imagine would, if they had the privilege to do so, disagree with you.
There are multiple companies, in multiple situations, who have pulled the power back to slow down, got distracted, and then got the shaker. And those are the ones we know about. I'm willing to bet this has happened countless times with the crew realizing their mistake before things got spicy.
Or would you make that a FOQA event and fire the lot of them, Emperor Boris?
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
This could easily happen to me. Hasn't yet, but it might very well. Where I part ways with you is the notion that what happens after that and leads to a crash is excusable. If the aircraft is working properly, a pilot (understandably, for the most part, I would imagine) gets distracted and approaches or even enters a stall, and the airplane lands with a chagrined and thoroughly unhappy PIC, no harm no foul. Lesson learned. File a bunch of alphabet soup reports and be on your way a wiser man (or woman). But to take an aircraft equipped with a shaker and a pusher in to a stall and then somehow manage to crash for no other reason than the wing stalled...well, hell, you might as well be a stonemason for all the fundamental piloting skill you have. I'm not sure what we're paid for if it's not knowing how to fly a wing. You're quite right that I'm not Bob Hoover...that's the point, you needn't be.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
...unless the AOA inputs to the FAC are wrong, you know...like what happened to ExcelAire. Then you can pull, pull, pull straight into the ground.
From a human interface point of view, it's that other 1e-12% that is really worrying, because suddenly "max alpha" inputs won't give you max alpha inputs anymore. Ahem.
Sent from Seat 3D
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
I just threw up a bit.Sadly, the bare aluminum is going away with the 777-300. It's been painted two-tone gray/white. This is probably what their A320 and 737MAXXX²+ deliveries will be as well.
Sent from Seat 3D
seagull
Well-Known Member
They can comment on anything they want to, but in this case their knowledge of said control philosophy is incorrect! Basing your ideas on a design on what appear to be crewroom rumors and misconceptions does not add much credibility. No FBW experience, either as a pilot or (better) being involved in working with the control system engineers with Boeing and Airbus is likely to lead to false impressions as to how the systems are actually designed, function and their limitations and advantages.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
seagull, my opinions on AB flight control philosophy are based upon the things told to me by guys who have flown both Airbus and Boeings. While it's true that some of them like the Airbus better, I've found that to be pretty rare. They usually praise the "comfort" factor, but dislike the control philosophy. YMMV.