Airbus A400 crashes on maiden flight

[RDoug]

Thing is, the A400 is like the size of a freakin C-17.

Not even close. It falls in between the C-17 and the C-130:

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Looks closer to a C-17 to me.

 

[Boris Badenov]

The real shame is that they had the An-70 waiting in the wings and turned it down so they could pay for this massive boondoggle.

 

[gotWXdagain]

If it's adjusted properly even a TFE-731 in manual mode (EEC or DEEC failure) shouldn't burn itself down regardless of what you ask it to do.

If, however, one was to panic-push the MOR lever forward on a PC-12 for whatever reason, one could conceivably convert their PT6 into rolling coal in very short order.

 

[knot4u]

If, however, one was to panic-push the MOR lever forward on a PC-12 for whatever reason, one could conceivably convert their PT6 into rolling coal in very short order.

I'm not familiar with PC-12s or PT-6s but I'm curious what a MOR lever is. The 731 has at the very least an Electronic Engine Control (EEC) or a N2 Digital Electronic Engine Control (N2 DEEC) or N1 Digital Electronic Control (N1 DEEC), they all have a throttle cable and the fuel control should be adjusted to ensure that regardless of whether or not the computer is participating the engine will produce expected numbers without tossing sparky bits aft.

 

[gotWXdagain]

I'm not familiar with PC-12s or PT-6s but I'm curious what a MOR lever is. The 731 has at the very least an Electronic Engine Control (EEC) or a N2 Digital Electronic Engine Control (N2 DEEC) or N1 Digital Electronic Control (N1 DEEC), they all have a throttle cable and the fuel control should be adjusted to ensure that regardless of whether or not the computer is participating the engine will produce expected numbers without tossing sparky bits aft.

Manual Override. The way the Fuel Control Unit works, to prevent fuel from being dumped in too quickly when you advance the Power Control Lever, it uses an air bellows that is inflated by bleed air. So when you move the PCL forward, the FCU opens a little bit, and lets a little bit of fuel in, the Ng accelerates and pumps more air into the Py bellows, the bellows inflates and allows more fuel through the FCU. Unfortunately, if the Py bellows was to be compromised, the engine would roll back to flight idle and you wouldn't be able to get any more power out of it than that, so they put in a MOR lever that bypasses the Py bellows and turns the FCU into an unrestricted fuel throttle. If the engine rolls back due to a failure of the Py bellows, you can bring up the MOR lever to regain engine power but you have to do it slowly and carefully otherwise you'll end up barbecuing your Pilatipi.

 

[🦈💜]

Manual Override. The way the Fuel Control Unit works, to prevent fuel from being dumped in too quickly when you advance the Power Control Lever, it uses an air bellows that is inflated by bleed air. So when you move the PCL forward, the FCU opens a little bit, and lets a little bit of fuel in, the Ng accelerates and pumps more air into the Py bellows, the bellows inflates and allows more fuel through the FCU. Unfortunately, if the Py bellows was to be compromised, the engine would roll back to flight idle and you wouldn't be able to get any more power out of it than that, so they put in a MOR lever that bypasses the Py bellows and turns the FCU into an unrestricted fuel throttle. If the engine rolls back due to a failure of the Py bellows, you can bring up the MOR lever to regain engine power but you have to do it slowly and carefully otherwise you'll end up barbecuing your Pilatipi.

Sounds just like our PT6 EPL.

-Fox

 

[knot4u]

Manual Override. The way the Fuel Control Unit works, to prevent fuel from being dumped in too quickly when you advance the Power Control Lever, it uses an air bellows that is inflated by bleed air. So when you move the PCL forward, the FCU opens a little bit, and lets a little bit of fuel in, the Ng accelerates and pumps more air into the Py bellows, the bellows inflates and allows more fuel through the FCU. Unfortunately, if the Py bellows was to be compromised, the engine would roll back to flight idle and you wouldn't be able to get any more power out of it than that, so they put in a MOR lever that bypasses the Py bellows and turns the FCU into an unrestricted fuel throttle. If the engine rolls back due to a failure of the Py bellows, you can bring up the MOR lever to regain engine power but you have to do it slowly and carefully otherwise you'll end up barbecuing your Pilatipi.

What I described is basically manual mode for a 731. If adjusted properly the fuel control won't let the engine cook its spinny bits. I'm suprised that there is no mechanical protection on a PT-6.

 

[Minuteman]

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-33078767

A military plane crash in Spain was probably caused by computer files being accidentally wiped from three of its engines, according to investigators.
…
Several countries that had already accepted deliveries of the plane - including the UK - grounded them following the accident.

However, Airbus has announced it plans to fly one of its own A400M aircraft at the Paris Air Show next week.
…
It said the focus of the inquiry was a theory that files known as "torque calibration parameters" had been accidentally deleted during a software installation process ahead of the plane's first flight.
…
Without the parameter files, the engines would have been left stuck in this mode.

This is because the planes were deliberately designed to prevent out-of-control engines powering back up, to avoid them causing other problems.

It was not foreseen that three propellers would be affected simultaneously, making it impossible to keep the plane airborne.

So this is shaping-up to be both poor quality AND design.

 

[Hacker15e]

I expect we will see plenty more deaths due to software problems in the future, especially as things become more automated and less and less manual/backup control is given to crew members (e.g. "you don't need to know how this works....").

 

[Stone Cold]

I expect we will see plenty more deaths due to software problems in the future, especially as things become more automated and less and less manual/backup control is given to crew members (e.g. "you don't need to know how this works....").

But they're designing pilotless airplanes, so that can't be true...automation is all-knowing, and to be used at all times!!

 

[RDoug]

But they're designing pilotless airplanes, so that can't be true...automation is all-knowing, and to be used at all times!!

Give me go-around power, HAL.

I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave.

 

[knot4u]

A mechanical linkage backup to the automation would have probably prevented this accident. FADEC is awesome until it isn't.