Air India plane crash

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
So you know how you like mountain biking?

Some like reading up on accidents that involve our very own fleet (737), in order to learn from dead pilots and try to avoid that fate in the future. Call it a professional learning experience. I don’t read every single page in a 200+ report. But a decent read of the initial info, the analysis, and the factual findings + probably cause? Absolutely.

Next time you find yourself in a hot plane with no APU because the crew didn’t turn it on :rolleyes: , maybe put the mountain bike magazine down and read a 737 accident report? :) There’s absolutely no shortage of them, rest assured. A lot of reading and a lot of learning to be had there - sadly.
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You still don't get my point. So I'll make it clear.

I'm not going to learn much from an accident caused by incompetence. Or from a murder/suicide. As for your frankly idiotic, assessment of how I conduct myself as a professional: I just got done with a teams meeting with FOQA to see if there was anything I could learn and take away from my PM go around a couple of weeks ago. On my days off.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
You still don't get my point. So I'll make it clear.

I'm not going to learn much from an accident caused by incompetence. Or from a murder/suicide.
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You actually can. Most pilot accidents are pilot error, and can be argued as being “incompetence.” But to write it off as incompetence does an injustice. Accidents are to be learned from.


It’s ok though, I’ve always thought this job attracts a whole bunch of people. There’s true aviators, then there’s button pushers, the TikTok crowd, people whose primary passion isn’t flying, etc.


BEEF SUPREME said:
As for your frankly idiotic, assessment of how I conduct myself as a professional: I just got done with a teams meeting with FOQA to see if there was anything I could learn and take away from my PM go around a couple of weeks ago. On my days off.
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After your infamous Alyeska thing, I don’t think you’re in any position to call anyone out on anything professional.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
You actually can. Most pilot accidents are pilot error, and can be argued as being “incompetence.” But to write it off as incompetence does an injustice. Accidents are to be learned from.


It’s ok though, I’ve always thought this job attracts a whole bunch of people. There’s true aviators, then there’s button pushers, the TikTok crowd, people whose primary passion isn’t flying, etc.




After your infamous Alyeska thing, I don’t think you’re in any position to call anyone out on anything professional.
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MikeD said:
This accident shows that even with a Flight Data Recorder that records a large number of aircraft parameters and functions, and a Cockpit Voice Recorder that records voice; there can still be very big unresolved questions such that we are seeing with this accident. Was a fuel switch physically activated or not? Was it an electrical anomaly or not?

Due to this, it’s high time to rethink the concept of another CVR recorder, the Cockpit Video Recorder. Which if that was installed, would clear up the questions in this accident regarding actual crew actions or inactions, quite quickly. Our helicopters are equipped with a Vision 1000 CVR that records video and audio, and is situated such in the cockpit that it shows the glare shield down to the instrument panel center console, with the edges of the video having the front seat crew helmets and forearms forward to the hands, and about knees down to the feet on the pedals. The video would fill in the gaps that the voice and data recorders cannot catch, and should get the same protections and safety privilege that the usual CVR/FDR receive.
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Pass
 
derg said:
That feels like…. Homework.
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I’ll be honest, in our quarterly CBTs, there’s usually an “optional” button in some random slides. One is not required to click on that. The pilot would be credited and paid in any case. But I am the person who will take the time to read that optional stuff.

If there’s a 10 minute recreation video made by the NTSB/BEA/AIB/AAIB/BFU/etc, I will watch it just to see what happened and what I can learn from it. And doubly-so if it’s a plane I’m currently on, the 737.

Call me a nerd, I go on Wikipedia and click on the family generic name (eg, Boeing 737 or Airbus A320). Then there’s always a link for incidents and hull losses. Every fatal accident, I read through what happened. I’m still not done with the 737 history yet.


That’s just me. :)
 
SeanD said:
I dont buy into this theory at all. There are a million other ways to off yourself without having to come up with a complex plan that includes sneaking your fat fingers into a position to switch off the fuel hoping that it works out the way you imagine it will, without the FO knowing what was happening. Meh...poppycock.
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Inverted said:
We don't have much in that preliminary report at all. We get much more detail and context in typical CVR transcripts and that is what I expect we will get in the final report. We received what feels like unrefined snippets of the CVR. You can turn those switches off pretty quietly. They don't make a snap unless you really flip the switch.

To cockpit video. No.
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Video would’ve answered these, rather than it being the lingering question that it still is here for the latter; or even any question at all as it comes to the former.

Skåning said:
Yeah, swing and a miss
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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Meh. I’m for video recording, but only if they’re used for a fatal crash.
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We already have them in many parts of aviation, engineered as previously described where the pilots are out of the field of view. One anti-argument is that it will make pilots “act for the camera”, which would imply that pilots already “act for the CVR”, saying the right things at the right time “for the recording”, whether accomplished as stated or even accomplished at all.
 
SteveC said:
I’m not really understanding the angst about video in the cockpit, given how FDR and CVR have been used to date.
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i don’t get it either, i’ve heard way more offensive things than i’ve seen in a flight deck

id be fine if it’s more restrictive than the fdr and cvr
 
SteveC said:
I’m not really understanding the angst about video in the cockpit, given how FDR and CVR have been used to date.
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Have 4 of them in one of my birds. One center-top of the cockpit that shows the instrument panel and a little out the front of the bird, and shows the top of pilots helmets and their from the forearms forward. Two in the back cabin showing the flight crewmembers and what is going on in the cabin. And one on the rescue hoist bar facing straight down that shows the hoist crewman and he/she is raising/loweing on the rescue hoist, as well as the situation on the ground below the helo when in a hover and doing whatever operation related to the ground. The cockpit one is used for safety/investigation purposes, the cabin and right door vertical one are for general use, and are often released to the media when some significant event is going on that is being recorded such as a rescue operation.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
your PAC contributions are greatly appreciated, etc.
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I wear a Back The PAC lanyard and support the PAC financially. I think very few pilots understand the importance.

I was asked by a rep why I didn’t wear our pink and purple merger “Kool Aid” lanyard. I don’t think he liked my answer. 🤣
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I’ll be honest, in our quarterly CBTs, there’s usually an “optional” button in some random slides. One is not required to click on that. The pilot would be credited and paid in any case. But I am the person who will take the time to read that optional stuff.

If there’s a 10 minute recreation video made by the NTSB/BEA/AIB/AAIB/BFU/etc, I will watch it just to see what happened and what I can learn from it. And doubly-so if it’s a plane I’m currently on, the 737.

Call me a nerd, I go on Wikipedia and click on the family generic name (eg, Boeing 737 or Airbus A320). Then there’s always a link for incidents and hull losses. Every fatal accident, I read through what happened. I’m still not done with the 737 history yet.


That’s just me. :)
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DropTank said:
"Cockpit video recording would have solved every mystery!!"

(post-it note)

HA!... no
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No, and that’s not the intent of it. But it provides extra context in areas of confusion that the CVR and FDR either don’t cover, or miss.
 
MikeD said:
No, and that’s not the intent of it. But it provides extra context in areas of confusion that the CVR and FDR either don’t cover, or miss.
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I can only assume these are the same guys who put a sticker on their company iPad camera lens to stop “the man” from somehow spying on them. :rolleyes:
 
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