Air India plane crash

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I mean, a guy committing suicide is not gonna say “cause I want to die” in the flight deck.
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Why not? Are suicidal people that want to kill 230 other innocent folks normally deceptive at the very end? This mindset of killing oneself along with a lot of others because they're trying to save face for their family is completely idiotic, especially for a widebody airline pilot in2025.
 
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knot4u said:
I'm going to take a WAG about a 787 but I suspect that throttle quadrant probably has at least four or eight 56 or 128 pin connectors (could be more, could be less) hooked to them. The connectors do give a physical and visual indication that they've been positively connected and are in fact locked. It's just another box with a bunch of transducers, a few connectors and some cam locks to ensure it stays put. When you get to one of those big connectors you need to be very aware of a couple of things, first you have to make sure you're trying to plug it into the right hole, second once you find the right hole when you seat it it needs to be straight because the little pins are about as stout as a marshmallow dripping and will fall over if you single them out and cuss at them loud enough. I'm just saying there's a lot points of possible failure other than the pilots. I'm giving you monkeys the benefit of the doubt, don't attack me.
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could corrosion of some kind be an issue? I remember an F-4 Phantom accident at Nellis where on takeoff roll in full afterburner, the nosewheel steering commanded a hardover to the left, resulting in the aircraft swerving off the runway, one main landing gear collapsing, and the eventual (though not directly related) deaths of both the pilot and WSO.
 
MikeD said:
It would have to be analyzed in the CVR, the actual voice saying it, to likely understand better how the challenge and response went and whether there’s indication of accident or intention.
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After engines are shut, your screens are going to flicker/clunk as backup power is established. Right? So the result of the incorrect action is near immediate. Regardless, if it was a true accident (like those Delta guys), then the fix should have been done immediately: turn them back on. You can shut them off 1 second apart, you can also put the switches back on 1 second apart. The fact it took 10 seconds of inaction and then each came on 4 seconds apart, my guess is the FO turned them on while still handflying.
 
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knot4u said:
I'm going to take a WAG about a 787 but I suspect that throttle quadrant probably has at least four or eight 56 or 128 pin connectors (could be more, could be less) hooked to them. The connectors do give a physical and visual indication that they've been positively connected and are in fact locked. It's just another box with a bunch of transducers, a few connectors and some cam locks to ensure it stays put. When you get to one of those big connectors you need to be very aware of a couple of things, first you have to make sure you're trying to plug it into the right hole, second once you find the right hole when you seat it it needs to be straight because the little pins are about as stout as a marshmallow dripping and will fall over if you single them out and cuss at them loud enough. I'm just saying there's a lot points of possible failure other than the pilots. I'm giving you monkeys the benefit of the doubt, don't attack me.
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I could appreciate that. But these switches are similar in the MAX and extremely robust. The fact there’s been no emergency declaration towards Boeing or GENx makers sounds like there was nothing wrong with the plane or its switches.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
After engines are shut, your screens are going to flicker/clunk as backup power is established. Right? So the result of the incorrect action is near immediate. Regardless, if it was a true accident (like those Delta guys), then the fix should have been done immediately: turn them back on. You can shut them off 1 second apart, you can also put the switches back on 1 second apart. The fact it took 10 seconds of inaction and then each came on 4 seconds apart, my guess is the FO turned them on while still handflying.
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That’s quite possible, and I wonder what more was said on the CVR, to better understand the context. Did the CA shut them off unknowingly, not being sure he did but it’s the first thing the FO suspected because both engines rolled back? Or, is it something more sinister. With no cockpit camera system, only the CVR may possibly shine some light on that.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
After engines are shut, your screens are going to flicker/clunk as backup power is established. Right? So the result of the incorrect action is near immediate. Regardless, if it was a true accident (like those Delta guys), then the fix should have been done immediately: turn them back on. You can shut them off 1 second apart, you can also put the switches back on 1 second apart. The fact it took 10 seconds of inaction and then each came on 4 seconds apart, my guess is the FO turned them on while still handflying.
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How much time elapses between switch movement, and indications showing up on the screens?
 
MikeD said:
could corrosion of some kind be an issue? I remember an F-4 Phantom accident at Nellis where on takeoff roll in full afterburner, the nosewheel steering commanded a hardover to the left, resulting in the aircraft swerving off the runway, one main landing gear collapsing, and the eventual (though not directly related) deaths of both the pilot and WSO.
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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I could appreciate that. But these switches are similar in the MAX and extremely robust. The fact there’s been no emergency declaration towards Boeing or GENx makers sounds like there was nothing wrong with the plane or its switches.
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I don't know, I stated I was making a wild ass guess. Sometimes engineers make these seemingly simple things very difficult. I'd bet whatever engineer that signed off on the PDB on a G-IV thought it was going to be an easy LRU. It's at least an 8-12 hour job for someone that's done it. And then because no one has a spare PDB laying around you have to take it apart and replace whatever contactor or relay is making you grumpy and then put it back in. Most pilots don't appreciate the smile they see on the mechanics faces when they're taxiing out, some do but they're rare.
 
SteveC said:
How much time elapses between switch movement, and indications showing up on the screens?
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This is a question I've been pondering, if the engine is switched off does it kill the electrical power from that engine? On the stuff I've worked on I know for certain that fuel and hydraulic valves are closed but I'm uncertain about electrical power. If both engines are "switched" off does the logic immediately disconnect it from any power bus and deploy the RAT automatically? It's an honest question because I can't imagine either pilot being hair triggered to deploy the RAT at the first sign of trouble.
 
Crew member switch both engines to "off"
SAME crew member says "why did you do that?!"

After extensive investigation, Same Crew Member had (social/mental/financial) problems.
 
DropTank said:
Crew member switch both engines to "off"
SAME crew member says "why did you do that?!"

After extensive investigation, Same Crew Member had (social/mental/financial) problems.
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What’s the motivation here to lay blame on the other pilot?
 
MikeD said:
He’s the next Gryder/Cornholio/etc
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I stay out of the YT aviation channels so don't know the reference, but of course all I see is this...

iu
 
SteveC said:
What’s the motivation here to lay blame on the other pilot?
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I think it's an asian thing about saving face, they have no issue with killings themselves and 230 innocent people but they don't want to shame their family so if they can blame someone else and that persons family gets shamed it's okay. That's just my uneducated and uninformed opinion. Prove me wrong. I'm also still waiting for the final report.
 
knot4u said:
I think it's an asian thing about saving face, they have no issue with killings themselves and 230 innocent people but they don't want to shame their family so if they can blame someone else and that persons family gets shamed it's okay. That's just my uneducated and uninformed opinion. Prove me wrong. I'm also still waiting for the final report.
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By that logic the final report will be face saving as well. And just like Air Egypt, the 737 in China and the 777 that went missing. We likely won't know what really happened.
 
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